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Contents
- 1 Is the suffix really neccessary since {{autolang}} ekzists?
- 2 Parameter nocat=1 should prevent any categories
- 3 The text available in all games can be misleading
- 4 Add an option to suppress all cats
- 5 3 extra categories out of nowhere with Weapon ak47
- 6 New template name is terrible (resolved)
- 7 Recent changes to parameters
- 8 Adding {{{since-engine}}}
- 9 The descriptions of brush entities are f**ked up
- 10 Pages for game-specific entities are being added to Category:Base Source Entities
- 11 Auto category feature is quite problematic
- 12 Rewrite
- 13 Weird empty element
Is the suffix really neccessary since {{autolang}}
ekzists?
{{Autolang}}
, but not now. Now such deletion can cause mixing of languages, which not everyone may like. Actually, this is not such a problem, but in some templates it's better to leave {{{suf}}} until {{Lang}}
is completely replaced by {{MultiPage}}
.
Parameter nocat=1 should prevent any categories
I want to use it in the See also sections and along the text. Lxm6 (talk) 11:35, 9 April 2023 (PDT)
The text available in all games can be misleading
Add an option to suppress all cats
3 extra categories out of nowhere with Weapon ak47
New template name is terrible (resolved)
{{this is a|convar}}
, {{this is a|point ent}}
and so forth. This would require parameters to be swapped (but maybe this can be done when this page is moved once again):
- {{{1}}} → {{{name|
{{PAGENAME}}
}}} - {{{type}}} → {{{1|{{{type}}}}}}
{{intro text}}
as 2 words, and {{introtext}}
as a redirect to the 2 word template
{{This is a}}
speaks much more for itself as opposed to {{intro text}}
. Apart from that, it is a sentence, not a text.
I don't see a big problem due to this template replacement. We could take our time and replace occurrencies whereever we see them and maybe, maybe, we'll find no more pages using point ent at some point. To be honest, it may not be the smartest idea and I'm unsure of whether this will happen at all (currently 656 pages with no namespace must be using point ent) but at least the creation of a newer point ent template,
{{this is a}}
, can be a silent process and new pages should use it. At least if I'm not missing something while typing this.
Recent changes to parameters
{{This is a|point|name=info_player_start}}
instead of {{Format|info_player_start|type=point}}
. But surely it would have been nice if it was that simple. Should the parameter change be reverted?
{{This is a}}
wouldn't make that much sense if you still had to type {{This is a|type=point|info_player_start}}
or {{This is a|info_player_start|type=point}}
.
{{This is a}}
has done, but ideally it should break as few things as possible – same functionality across Entity, Format, and This is a at the least, and a deprecation notice at the most. This wouldn't really be a problem if there was no change to this in the first place. The old Entity template name and format was fine. It was confusing and required me to reference the documentation frequently, but it wasn't even close to inconvenient. The two different name changes are what have made this whole situation really convoluted, and right now we're kind of seeing the consequences of our indecisiveness with all of this.
The template displays fine on webpages when using both previous syntaxes and namings. I think this should be handled in a similar manner to the Lang to Multipage conversion where a deprecation notice is placed but at the same time that doesn't seem highly necessary because whereas Lang was inferior to Multipage in terms of functionality, at this point in time, with the way most pages use the old template versions there's no difference in how they operate so they're all basically identical.
In my opinion the best thing to do is to just let it be and notify editors to replace usages of Entity and usages of Format with {{This is a}}
. It's going to be a lot of cleanup but it's not something that's immediately detrimental to readers or – from my experience, at least – editors.
Edit: I've looked at the code for the old versions and it is very, very bad. Looking back I didn't actually envision that the new syntax would mess things up this much, and I think this is far too egregious. Probably would have been better to just go back to using {{Entity}}
but we're past that point already. In this case the amount of hurdles the old code needs to jump through just to get it to look identical to the new version is really not great and a deprecation notice is necessary, I feel. This is going to impact page load times even if it's not very noticeable.
Absolutely. As long as no one gets the great idea to redirect a different template to this, then there's no need to worry.
The parameter change that I proposed is described just a bit further up in this discussion page. The actual change is the following:
- {{{1}}} → {{{name}}}
- {{{type}}} → {{{1}}}
Nothing else (should have) changed, the functionality is identical. So I'm unsure of what you mean by saying that it is "very, very bad". Aren't we talking about the replacement from {{Entity|info_player_start|type=point}}
to {{This is a|point|name=info_player_start}}
per page? Yes, it is work but 1. it is work that can wait (as you said) and 2. the readability due to the previous template names would finally be fixed, I guess.
I don't want anyone to get mad about this change because in the above, we were discussing about a more fitting template name, a new name was proposed along with the parameter change and no one protested, instead everyone who answered seemed to agree.
I might have overreacted a bit just from the initial reaction to seeing the template code for {{Entity}} and {{Format}}.
In reality, this isn't that bad, yes, and I think this new name is perfectly serviceable as a replacement even if it has its downsides (again, nothing that can't be fixed— kind of repeating myself here, but you get the point). I was concerned about how much work was required to get the old template syntaxes to work with the new one; it doesn't seem to be a problem with how the two parameters have been switched around, rather, it seems to be an issue with how not specifying {{{series}}}
or {{{engine}}}
in the template causes things to break. I'm not sure when this was introduced and if this is an issue with the new syntax but the amount of extra work required to get it working properly does still seem particularly egregious in my eyes, and I think something should be done to remedy that. Page load time impact isn't noticeable on my end but if a small group of users are on lower-end connections or PCs, which is very well possible, it might have a large difference. I believe it's something worth evaluating.
Other than that, if all that gets worked out, everything should be fine. I'm not even sure if a deprecation notice on {{Entity}}
or {{Format}}
would be necessary as those and {{This is a}}
should be able to work in harmony with no hiccups (minus the parameter issues), but right now at this point it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal regardless.
Adding {{{since-engine}}}
would yield:
or, for the Quake engine:
This would be useful for console commands/cvars that don't change between current and old engines, and entities that exist in Source and Source 2.
The descriptions of brush entities are f**ked up
I have noticed that a lot of brush entities (especially func_ entities) have "* is a cut brush entity available in all Source games" despite them not being cut such as func_monitor, func_breakable, func_lod ect. Anyone else notice this and is this intentional? edit. I am planning on reverting these but I fear these were intentional so I don't want to change them until I know
- My mistake. Thanks for your message! It should be fixed now.
I had changed the cut parameter such that cut=0 should be the default and everything else would count as a cut entity. However, I missed that there are templates where {{{cut}}} is set to the empty string by default, yielding cut entities if {{{cut}}} is not specified when calling that other template. Now, both cut="" and cut=0 do what one would expect. --popcorn (talk) 16:31, 18 September 2023 (PDT) - Thanks for notifiying me, I am quite new to contributing to this website so I wanted to check. --User:CodingAintFun 16:21, 19 September 2023 (GMT)
Pages for game-specific entities are being added to Category:Base Source Entities
Auto category feature is quite problematic
Rewrite
- The entire template was rewritten to use strings subpage and be very navigable
- {{{1}}} has to be the exact name that the text will show in English (so
e0
orpoint
no longer work, it has to bepoint entity
). This could be changed, but it nicely follows the idea of readability, and bots can be used to update current use of the template to this standard. - {{{type=int point}}} and {{{type=int brush}}} have been removed in favor of {{{internal=1}}} (which already exists).
- {{{seriescs}}} has been removed in favor of {{{series}}} and {{{since}}}.
- Parameters such as {{{game}}} now have to spell out the entire name (e.g. Team Fortress 2 instead of tf2)
- Further subcategorization. What would have previously been in Category:Portal entities will now go in Category:Portal brush entities, Category:Portal point entities, etc.
- Very minor grammar edits, such as when something is in several games (mostly as a result of the template being made more simple)
- Any boolean parameters no longer require values of only
0
or1
. Any boolean in {{yesno}} now works.
The main issue is that there's a higher expansion depth at up to 32 (out of 40) rather than 25. This could prove to be an issue. I have noticed, however, that just {{source}} is already at 16, so that might be more important to reduce than this.
Also, setting an engine parameter to "source2" will place it in the wrong category. I may eventually get a bot to periodically look through every page using this template and fix any issues such as this one.
I'd also appreciate if people added translations to its strings subpage as well as this page for translations, because I don't think I'll be able to accurately get them from this template. If the language needs special support, please tell me so I can add a method to make it work.
Please let me know if this rewrite should go forward to replace the current version of this template, or if it needs tweaking.Weird empty element
☑ Resolved (apparently)
{{this is a}}
is on the same line as {{multipage}}
, it will add an empty dark element to the second line, as seen on Weapon_pistol. I could swear this wasn't a thing before but I'm not sure and Equalizers edit didn't seem to change anything so idk what is what.