Category talk:Level Design: Difference between revisions

From Valve Developer Community
Jump to navigation Jump to search
 
(58 intermediate revisions by 15 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
[http://www.game-edit.org/tutorials/general/compile_theory/compile_theory.shtml This] is very interesting, but I can't find any contact info to get permission and it is probably needs an update too. Can anyone help? --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 06:11, 29 Jun 2005 (PDT)
{{MenuBox
:Checking the forums will probably yield something [[User:^Ben|^Ben]]
|title = Archives
::I have uploaded all the entitys images in a nice easy to use gallery http://ben.shadow-phoenix.com/quickgallery/ [[User:^Ben]]
|text=<div>
* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Level_Design&oldid=78460 29 Jun 2005 to 5 Feb 2008]
</div>
}}




It would be really cool if someone could contact the authors to get permission to convert these tutorials [http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?page=tutorials&game=HL HERE] for HL2 as the archicture tutorials are expert tutorials on creating professionally done maps. --[[User:BLacKcHeeTaH|BLacKcHeeTaH]]
== Development workflow ==
Could I ask that someone knowledgeable add some information on how multiple people can work together on the same map (form a technical point of view) eg if I were editing code as part of a team, we'd have source control which would allow us to merge changes on checkin. Is this possible with VTF files or is it only possible for a single person to work on a given level at any one time? What workflow do Valve employ? Thanks [[User:Basiclife|Basiclife]] 00:24, 22 January 2013 (PST)


== Setting up Hammer ==


==Blah==
After downloading the sourcesdk through steam, I attempted to use hammer, and when I double-clicked on it, it brought up a window w/ several tabs and forms to fill. The window's title is: Configure Hammer, and I must not have done something right (I hit cancel because I wasn't expecting to see this window and frankly didn't know what to put in the blanks.) because after going through a tutorial (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Your_First_Map) I began to notice that I don't have all the options that this tutorial says I should. One example is that I don't have a dev devwall filter for textures. Has anyone else encountered something similar to this and can you help me? --[[User:Raiden|Raiden]] 11:32, 18 Jun 2008 (CST)
Personally, I think multiple languages all put together in 1 wiki is cluttersome &mdash;[[User:Ts2do|Ts2do]] 13:01, 18 Sep 2005 (PDT)
:Have you launched the game you're trying to map for recently? --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 13:15, 18 Jun 2008 (PDT)
* Agreed. `[[User:Zozart|zozart]] <sup>.[[User talk:Zozart|chat]]</sup> @ 01:56, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)
On the subject, is it just me or does this category seem quite cluttered and unorganised? `[[User:Zozart|zozart]] <sup>.[[User talk:Zozart|chat]]</sup> @ 01:57, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)
:Personally, I think the whole Source doc category system is messy. All those headings, followed by a huge lump of category articles. There needs to be a series of concise tutorials in the category 'article' space, not a list of everything! --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 03:17, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)
:See [[User:TomEdwards/sandbox]] --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 07:09, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)
::I like the idea of two columns. See [[User:Zozart/category_test]] `[[User:Zozart|zozart]] <sup>.[[User talk:Zozart|chat]]</sup> @ 09:05, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)


==akilling.org links==
== Reorganizing the Level Design page ==
Well, they are obviously dead since akilling.org has been shutting down. :(


There is a mirror here: http://www.gmodcentral.com/mirror/akg/index.htm I don't really know what gmodcentral.com is, judging from the forums they try to finance the server via donations. That raises questions how long this site will be online... and they don't host the sample maps.
I'd like to reorganize the layout of this page, I think the current layout is a bit too cluttered and may be confusing for the new user to navigate. I've seen a lot of the questions on the help pages here and in the Steam forums about topics already covered here on the VDC. I know part of this may likely be due to ignorance or plain laziness, but another part is due to users simply being unable to find what they are looking for. I've had trouble finding articles myself and there have been several duplicate articles created for this reason as well.


Now, we can replace all the links to that mirror, wait/make a better mirror, or maybe we could convert the tuts to the wiki... [[User:Mark_WiseCarver]] did allow others to mirror the site etc and has also contributed to the wiki, I think he won't have any objections.
My proposals:
# '''(complete)''' remove the "Half-Life 2", "TF2" titles that link to the general game info pages, these can be linked to from within the design page of the game (ie: This page lists mapping articles which are specific to [[Left 4 Dead]])
# '''(complete)''' pull all the mapping articles from here that only apply to 1 or 2 specific games and instead place them in the level design pages for those games.  It doesn't make sense to leave these articles listed on the main page as they don't help users who don't own those specific games.
# '''(complete)''' remove the "intermediate / difficult" classifications and instead relocate these links into more specific subsections (eg: lighting, sound, environment, etc).
# '''(complete)''' De-link (orphan) the "Abstract Mapping" section and relocate the useful information from there into the subtopics mentioned above. As it is now, most of the links in that section simply redirect other pages, if not to the '''same''' pages. Very few of them actually contain useful content themselves and I see no reason to leave the section listed as it is.
I've already done a rough mock-up for my redesign idea for those interested. Anyways, other ideas and suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 01:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
:: '''CleanUp\Reorganize:'''
:: Well, as it's been close to a month and there have been no replies to my proposal, I'm guessing either no one has any problems with my suggestions or they have been completely overlooked.  To make sure the later isn't true, I've placed a notice on the level design page.  If no one brings up any objections or other options to my suggestions within the next week, I'll go ahead and start restructuring the category along the guidelines I listed above. --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 02:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
:::I never noticed this... But I'd agree with you to go ahead. I was looking at that mockup page on the recent edits page and thought it looked much better, I didn't check what it was for though. But you've always done good edits on the VDC, so you have my vote :)  --[[User:Craziestdan|DannyS]] 03:28, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Heh, you caught me in the middle of an edit.  I would have put a notice up earlier, but I wasn't to happy with how the initial mockup looked, so I've been messing around with that page the past few weeks to find something a bit more structured.  I still want to make a few more changes to it, but I think it's mostly workable. --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 03:59, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::Since I did not see any objections or other ideas, I've gone ahead and carried out my restructuring idea. I changed a few things not in my original list above:
:::::*I moved a lot of the design theory articles off the front page. While some of them might not necessarily been intended to be games specific, they heavily utilized examples that only someone who had played a specific game would be familiar with.  It's not that I don't think they don't belong on the front page, it's just they way they are currently written limits their usefulness to specific games.
:::::*Although I removed the Abstract Mapping section from the main page and the Abstract Mapping header from most of the non-redundant sub-pages in it, I decided against completely orphaning it as many foreign language pages are using the content which I cannot easily fix.
:::::On another note, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch is currently grouped in with [[Half-Life 2 Level Creation]], but it really should have it's own page as most of the articles in the [[Half-Life 2 Level Creation]] page are not applicable to the game (eg: Dynamic assaults, Nodegraph construction, etc). --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 01:19, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::::I'm removing some articles related to general texture \ model creation as well. I don't think these really belong in the level design section. I can see something like linking an article on how to create skyboxes to [[Skybox (2D)]] making sense, but listing them directly under general level design doesn't.  Another exception would be for game specific stuff, like level overviews for CSS/DODS and Maplist Thumbnails for TF2, but I think general material creation articles should stay in the material creation section. --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 23:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Looks good man, this is what I tried earlier and failed at :D. Otherwise it feels nice and homely. I'm glad that it worked out with all the changes made to VDC along side.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 04:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks, I looked over your earlier design when I was gathering ideas for the new layout.  I still think this page needs some more work, but at least now there should be less digging trying to find the specific articles. --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 23:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::hi guys. im  new to this wiki editing thing as well as to source so forgive me for not doing this comment properly.  well basically that same inexperience , i thought, might help give a unique perspective to this page as im currently trying to learn from scratch how to level design through this wiki. the page is definitely easier to understand now. it was wierd having the links to the invidiual game level design pages in such an akward place before.  however i do suggest the following:
:::::*changing the title "game specific articles" to "game specific level design."
:::::*i also feel that some sort of connection has to be made right after "making your first map" and the game specific articles [game specific level design] perhaps some text below the title of game specific... saying something like "Below are game specific game level design articles that we recommend to be started after building your first map.
:::::*if im not mistaken there is advanced lighting??? so that should either be added to the lighting list or all should be removed leaving one link to a lighting page with sub-links to basic, intermediate, advanced.
:::::*2d vs 3d skyboxes. i still dont understand when to use what and this "main level deisgn page" doesn't suggest either.  should there be a link to one skybox page with a general description + differences between them , then links to each? or should  that whole thing just be here in the level design page with skybox getting its own sub-category after getting started?
:::::--[[User:Azar|azar]] 09:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
:::: its seems that there is also an intermediate design page  [[Level Design]].  i feel taht there should be some sort of direct link from this "main" or "basic" level design page to provide a smooth road map for learning for a new person.  any suggestions on how this should be integrated? its not obvious if a person should continue to it after the whole "getting started category" or after the "game specific level design" or in parallel with game specific [and how do we show that? perhaps text in parentheses saying "to be followed in parallel with game specific" ].  the intermediate page itself says it should be started right after "your first map."  im not sure if thats best as it would jsut make the time before you getting your hands dirty in the specific game type you want to create too long. anyone agree/disagree? suggestions? --[[User:Azar|azar]] 09:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: Welcome to the VDC.  I agree, the level design page could still use some reworking.  As for skyboxes, a 2D skybox is just brushes textured with the skybox texture used for bringing in the sky textures, a 3D skybox is used to create the illusion of a world outside the playable portion of the map.  I'm not sure about the intermediate design pages, although they do have a significant amount of content, the section as a whole was never really finished, I believe this was why it wasn't linked.  It could still probably be linked over, but possibly with a disclaimer stating the above. If you unsure about editing the WiKi, be sure to check out the [[Help:Editing]] section. Also, feel free to ask questions if there is something you aren't certain about, although it may be awhile before you get a response. --[[User:Brandished|brandished]] 17:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)


Thoughts? --[[User:Vaarscha|Vaarscha]] 23:36, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
== Adding articles ==


:He won't have any objections because he left...&mdash;'''[[User:Ts2do|ts2do]]''' 23:49, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
AI section? you know, for NPCs assaults etc. (or a link to it)


::I know... but I was thinking of answering any copyright questions before they pop up. --[[User:Vaarscha|Vaarscha]] 23:51, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
trains? shouldn't they be connecting areas


:::Nah...he does (did) it for the community: it seems leaving places for him is a recurring thing [http://www.bearkey.com/account/info.pl?action=general&user=wisemx&boardid=4990]&mdash;'''[[User:Ts2do|ts2do]]''' 23:53, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
[[User:MLSTRM|MLSTRM]] 15:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)


:At the hlmappers maillist I mentioned a temporary url for the akg forums.. http://66.191.215.182/ . Now I was looking at that url again and saw that they moved it ( the forums only ) to http://sourcemapping.org/forum/login.asp?target=default.asp --[[User:JurgenKnops|Jurgen Knops]] 03:50, 6 Apr 2006 (PDT)
== "Player_Start" ==


:All the tuts seem to be up at http://www.sourcemapping.org/tuts , so perhaps just point the links to there instead... [[User:Rodeoclown|- RodeoClown]] 16:29, 23 Apr 2006 (PDT)
Ok, i've made a few "simple" mods and now im trying to get serious. But, two problems keep occurring, 1; I can't find a way to make the Player start with a certain apparatus, like weapons and the HEV suit (i am modding Half Life 2) and secondly; i can't figure out how to make the player's current apparatus "roll over" into the next level once they change... Any help would be highly appreciated,


:GMODCENTRAL's game servers are helped by donations, but the website will be up until we decide we don't want it to be. Our initial contract is one year. So don't expect any changes before then. --[[User:Eraser|Eraser]] 18:47, 11 Apr 2006 (PDT)
P.S i didn't know which category this topic would go under; so i just put it under Level Design in General.


Could someone please answer/discuss the ''main issue'' here: what to do with the broken links? --[[User:Vaarscha|Vaarscha]] 12:49, 6 Apr 2006 (PDT)
Thank you.


:I'm not hugely familiar with AKG or its history. My first reaction though would be: If you can contact the articles' authors and get permission, put them directly on here. If not, link to mirrors. If there are no mirrors, delete the links. --[[User:Giles|Giles]] 02:02, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
== Decompiling ==


::As said above, I think that there's no legal issue if we post his tutorials here. But there are some other problems: 1. overlaps with existing articles 2. tuts depend on example maps (not hosted here) 3. style is different from the usual wiki articles.
I think there should be a link to the decompiling article on this page somewhere. It is related, and it should be made more obvious so people read the ethics on it. {{unsigned|Lancelot}}
::If we can find solutions to the problems I'd have no problem with adding the tutorials here (including working on it). Otherwise, we should link to one of the mirrors. Which one is a decision I will not make on my own, we should finally find a consent. --[[User:Vaarscha|Vaarscha]] 07:05, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
:(Two years later) It is [[:Category:Level_Design#Design_Theory|here]]. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 06:42, 30 September 2011 (PDT)


:::I sent all of the files to Joe, owner of the sourcemapping.org site.
== Removal of Source mod level creation link? ==
:::Don't know if that server will be able to support the bandwidth needed but the files are on-line now.
:::We have been talking about my possibly creating a new site with Video Tutorials, primarily.
:::I'm really sorry if I've caused any inconvenience by taking akilling.org down. --[[User:Mark WiseCarver|wisemx]] 14:25, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
::::Forgot to post the [http://www.sdknuts.com/ new server] --[[User:Mark WiseCarver|wisemx]] 16:15, 15 Aug 2006 (PDT)
::::: Sdknuts is closing down, I have Marks permission to add the content here, but as stated above, any ideas what to do with sample maps etc? --[[User:Plykkegaard|Peter [AGHL]]] 14:53, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)


A good shot would be to use [[Hosting_Sites|hosting sites]]. I think we should keep sample maps and other files (especially large ones) out of the wiki (I don't even know what other files, apart from image files, you are allowed to upload here on the VDC). The wiki is aimed more at documentation rather than content hosting, and we should keep it that way or else we might risk it becoming an authentic "garbage bin" and perhaps even risk ''killing'' the site's bandwidth. --[[User:Etset|Etset]] 15:30, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
Anyone know why the link to all the Source mods level creation page was removed? I'm thinking it needs to be added back - [[User:Wazanator|Wazanator]]
:Ok no problem - any hints as "how to" create TOC and also apply the "correct" style? first page: [[WiseHouse]] --[[User:Plykkegaard|Peter [AGHL]]] 16:23, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
::To force the creation of the TOC, just add "<nowiki>__TOC__</nowiki>" (without quotes) to the top of the article. The style of the article is something hard to define. An article shouldn't be '''excessively''' long (your mileage may vary, of course) and should [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Avoid_peacock_terms|avoid peackock terms]], whilst being generally well written and easy to read and interpret. Links to other articles should exist (never in excess: generally you shouldn't link more than once), and the article [[Help:Editing#Categorizing_your_pages|should be categorized]]. Using images is very important, but their placement and how they are used have a huge impact on the general looks of an article, so they should be used in order to prevent the page from looking like...well...''crap'', if you pardon the expression. For example: avoid having extremely large images in the middle of the text; One should take advantage of the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax|extended image syntax]] available, to format the appearance of images; When uploading an image, that image should follow the [[Valve Developer Community:Image use policy|image use policy]]; Etc.
::Of course all of this doesn't have to be done right at the beginning of the article, that's why this is a wiki: things are constantly being improved. So don't worry if it's not perfect at first. Also, take a look at other articles to get the general "feel" of it, for example articles in: [[:Category:Level Design]].
::Oh, one last thing, '''please''' use the '''Show preview''' button before submitting (i.e. ''Save page'' button) your text, otherwise you're filling up the [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]] page with unnecessary items every two minutes, making it harder to read through. Thanks! :)  --[[User:Etset|Etset]] 16:57, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
:::Will do, btw how long do I have before the session times out?
:::Lost changes a couple of time as was forced to the login screen, do I need to keep a copy in eg notepad? thanks ... --[[User:Plykkegaard|Peter [AGHL]]] 17:04, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
::::I sincerely don't know how much time it takes to timeout, but here's a tip: when you submit your changes (whether it be the Save page or Show preview button), and realize that your session has timed out, just press the "Back" button and, hopefully, all your text will be there. Then, open another window (or tab) and log into the VDC there. Switch back to the tab you're editing your text at: now you can submit your text.
:::::I'll use notepad as temp placeholder :) --[[User:Plykkegaard|Peter [AGHL]]] 22:56, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
::::Forgot to mention earlier: an article should use <nowiki>"== Headers =="</nowiki> in sufficient number to clearly split it up into reasonably-sized and logical (i.e. coherent) sections. Extremely large-sized sections (your mileage may vary...) should be avoided, as that can easily lead any reader into extreme boredom! :) --[[User:Etset|Etset]] 17:12, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
:::::Yep you can use one or more equal signs depending on the level of the header - and the text will go into the TOC --[[User:Plykkegaard|Peter [AGHL]]] 22:56, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
::::PS: Oh and using the ''Show preview'' button helps to "refresh" your login session, so there's another reason to use it hehe :P --[[User:Etset|Etset]] 17:14, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
:::::Nahh sometimes I am checking other stuff, I have been used to save frequently by using ctrl-S (developer), I will change my habit a little for this project :) --[[User:Plykkegaard|Peter [AGHL]]] 22:56, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)


== hey i need some help with lighting can anybody help? ==
== Clipping Gaps. ==


Im new to game desionging so i not that good with lighting yet but ive put a couple ligts in a hallway and stairway. they light of the floor but not the celling. also i seem to have a problem getting the sun entity into the sky. it stays horizontal to the player and when im on a hiogher elvation the sun follows me.
Anyone know how to fix the gaps in the ground along where it was clipped? [[File:Slits.png]]
I've tried manually lining them up until they're aligned but it's taking forever, there has to be a quicker way.
:<strike>When something like this happened to me, the easiest way was to quickly Undo ({{key|Ctrl}}+{{key|Z}}) it before I made any more edits. It's better to just delete the brush and create a new one if you can't undo it.</strike> &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 06:40, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
:On second thought, that doesn't help at all. If your displacement looks like this, try sewing it. If that doesn't work, then the displacements aren't lining up correctly. Resize it and try again. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 00:43, 22 January 2013 (PST)


Need help thanks.
== Should there be a tutorial for procedural generation? ==


:You have to set the sun entity's angle to a different one...that changes the infinite projection location of it.. for the lights, which material are you using for the ceiling? it may be because the material is made for models or is set to the unlit shader.&mdash;'''[[User:Ts2do|ts2do]]''' 20:36, 29 Apr 2006 (PDT)
Seeing as how it is possible in CS:GO to perform procedural generation, as proven by Orelstealth, I figure that there should be a tutorial so people can do procedural generation in Source easier.


== Seriuos help ==
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=3SvRWWU3s00 English Translation by 3kliksphilip]
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=106719fW24g Original by Orelstealth] - [[User:Amicdict|Amicdict]] ([[User talk:Amicdict|talk]]) 18:53, 30 August 2021 (PDT)


Okay so i have a bad problem. Hammer keeps giving me errers and and its really slowed down my Mod. The first error is "Windows specified the error" cannot find file specifeid. What the heck that doesnt make any sense and i alreayd tried steams help and support. cant find the dang ask a qustion tab anyware. and tyhen when i compile my map Hl2 starts up normaly then the consle pops up and it loads my map but then the screen keeps flickering like its changing resolutions or someting. then an error window pops up and it says HL2.exe encountered a problem and needs to shutoff. The file is datacahe.dll and accompat.txt in my temp folder. this sucks i need major help. it be greatly aprricated if someone can help with this or leats tell me how to fix it. I can still add brushs and the whole bit. but when it trys to compile it says file not found. and its the only file on my second hardrive so thata why it doesnt make any sense.
== What's the point of a "Specific Engines" section? ==


Thanks
[[user:TheBlokker|TheBlokker]] & [[user:Gaijinviking|Gaijinviking]] why exactly do we need a "Specific Engines" section? [[Source_Basic_Level_Creation]] is for starters not a great path name for a page that is titled "Source Level Design" and this page just seems to be a mirror of information that is already on the Level Design category page?


There is no reason for a Source 2 page when pages already exist on the sidebar that directly takes you to [https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dota_2_Workshop_Tools Dota2], [https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Half-Life:_Alyx_Workshop_Tools Half-Life: Alyx], and [https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamVR/Environments SteamVR tools] that each has their section on level design.


someone should really help him is anyone going to? (I am new go modding too sry) [[User:Fiercefighter|True_Unity]] 14:55, 15 Aug 2006 (PDT)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldSrc GoldSrc] (not "GoldSource") should have a similar breakdown section as [https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SDK_Docs SDK_Docs] and not cannibalize sections that were made and have been operated as being for the Source Engine for the past 17 years. You need to understand what pages link here both inside the VDC and externally. You can not just go and do drastic changes like this, they should be first talked about here in the discussion section. --[[User:Wazanator|Wazanator]] ([[User talk:Wazanator|talk]]) 14:04, 12 April 2022 (PDT)


== Outer Space?? ==
So should we wipe Source 2 and GoldSrc from this page as it's a dedicated Source Level Design page and not a general Valve Level Design Page? (All the Source-Specific Articles lead me to this conclusion) --GaijinViking 17:16, 12 April 2022 (PDT)


Hello,
:I would think so, I think combining multiple engines on pages is going to be really confusing to readers. The goal should be to make it easy to flow from article to article that is relevant to the reader. Example: If you are brand new and want to learn what NPC's are available to map with in HL2 the flow might be something like Source SDK Index to level design to half-life 2 to the NPCs & AI section. --[[User:Wazanator|Wazanator]] ([[User talk:Wazanator|talk]]) 10:37, 13 April 2022 (PDT)
I have been tearing at HL2 SDK for a while now trying to get a MOD to go into outer space.
I've done many things just short of completely breaking steam :P
"sv_gravity 0" gives the no gravity affect, but you cant move.
My guess is it's extremely simple or extremely hard. either way I desire to see HL2 in space!
Anyone out there have a strategy or tutorial for making a space age level?
 
[[User:SirBigOne|Sir_BigOne]] 7:47pm, 24 March 2007 (PST)
 
 
Have you tryed the mod ESMOD or in other words the Enternal silence mod? try that one as it is all SPACE!!!!--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 18:11, 4 Apr 2007 (PDT)
 
== Help with options setup for Gmod. ==
 
Hi. I was wondering if anyone would help me out with how to set up the options parameters for Gmod 10. I've lightly mapped for CS:S, and would just like to know what to put in all those darned boxes you gotta fill out.
(In Hammer, Tools > Options > it brings up Configure Hammer.)
I have no idea what folders and all I need to add, put in, enter, etc...
Please help, or send an E-Mail to
( xxdeiblerxx@yahoo.com )
 
thank ya.
 
 
== Large Edit ==
 
Well i edited the area a bit more and organized everything alot better hopefully to all of your eyes along side mine, so tell me what you guys think. Mainly i tried to simplify everything as much as i could. The goal truly is when a new person wants to map, everything here should be easy to find and right away let that person know where it might be under or categorized next to. Mainly when anyone new comes along they might say "well hey i wanna light things up!" So they see that there is a lighting section and viola! They see and find exactly what they where looking for.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 03:25, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
:I have two objections: How does (the obscurely titled) "Creating a Level", which seem to handle the file management of a mod, fit into the Architecture category? Also, "Creating Holes in Displacements" is more of a subfield to "Displacements", and it's linked from that page too. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 04:25, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
::Yeah thats what i was thinking yet you can place those where be for now. Ill find a good place for "Creating a Level" as for that "holes in displacements" ill get rid of that, but yup agree with you all the way.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 04:37, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
:::Your edits are too numerous for me to keep track of, but I have some more pointers:
:::*If possible, an order according to work flow or relevance is often better than an alphabetized order.
:::*There is already a link to [[Nodegraph]]. (Last time I checked, there are two now, the other one being called "Nodegraph Creation".)
:::*I'm not sure that "editable" is a word. It could just say "Source games".
:::--[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 04:53, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
:::The page [[HDR]] links to everything within your "LDR and HDR" category except [[Phong]], and the page [[Lighting]] links to everything withing your "Lighting category" except [[Lightmap]]. Just linking to [[HDR]] and [[Lighting]], and adding links to [[Phong]] and [[Lightmap]] to these pages respectively, will create a shorter and easy-to-browse list. Linking to [[HDR]] from [[Lighting]] will also trim down the list further. By the way, I don't know that much about Phong, but I don't believe that it has anything to do with HDR. It's more of a shading effect. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 06:21, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
Alrighty and thanks for the feedback, ill get on it right away!--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 06:31, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
 
Also as to the lighting, I understand that it would be more simple but just wanted to keep these links here for right now. Either way you'll have to reload the previous page or just hit the back button. For right now they will stay but if many others find it annoying then yeah ill take em out.
 
=== Reverted ===
I've reverted these changes.  This layout increased the size and complexity of the page by a large amount instead of serving the stated goal of simplifying it. If anything, the page should get smaller, not larger. Also, any large changes to high-traffic pages like this should not be made without previous discussion on the talk page. When you are proposing large design changes, you can create prototype versions of the pages in your own userspace (i.e. [[User:MrTwoVideoCards/Level Design category layout]]) if necessary. The previous version is still available in the [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Category:Level_Design&oldid=55030 revision history]. --[[User:JeffLane|JeffLane]] 09:56, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
Isn't it sort of unfair to do that, i belive that we should let others speak for themselves rather than just you Jeff, i understand where you are coming from but just you do not agree with it doesn't mean everyone will hate it.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 10:07, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
:As moderators on this site, we have a responsibility to retain a certain level of quality of our official documentation. Any large changes to high-traffic pages like this should not be made without previous discussion on the talk page. That allows for fair feedback on the proposed changes before they are made. --[[User:JeffLane|JeffLane]] 10:39, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:I should point out, I mean feedback by ''anyone'' who wishes to give it, not just one of the moderators. --[[User:JeffLane|JeffLane]] 10:41, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
:I agree with Jeff here. The Level Design page should, in my opinion, be shrunk even further. I don't currently have the time (AGDC is this week) but I will aim to put up some prototypes of how the page could be decreased further in size, especially in length. We can then discuss them further before making major changes to the page. --[[User:Kal Esh|Kal Esh]] 12:53, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
== Proposed Changes ==
 
Okay... I liked the way [[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] had gone as far as categorizing everything, but the amount of info presented to the user was vast and harder to digest than what was previously there (hence the revert by Jeff). Ignoring any conflict regarding said revert my proposed changes are twofold:
 
* '''Goal #1: Streamline the Level Design page. Present high-level information that makes quick and easy sense (categories).'''
** A location to ALL the information (more along the likes of [[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]]'s changes)
** Game Independent Information
*** e.g. Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Compilation theory, etc.
** Game Dependant Information
*** e.g. Half-Life 2, HL2: Episode One, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, The Ship, etc. (HL2: Episode one could even be a sub-link to HL2 due to dependency issues)
*** links to pages providing more in-depth discussion regarding topics specific to those games
*** i.e. [[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]]'s Source Games Category, but changed
 
 
* '''Goal #2: Support Goal #1 by creating article pages for each high-level link.
 
This may involve creating mini Level Design pages for each Game, which may be bothersome to setup, but ultimately allow for easier searching of topic or game-specific information
 
This also includes creating an organizational page (of sorts) for each category of information. For instance, the "Abstract Mapping" article page currently includes a near or exact copy / paste of the list of abstract mapping articles linked through the main Level Design page. The Abstract Mapping article page could instead provide the same list but with short descriptions for each article or set of articles. In addition related articles could be grouped together and the page could be categorized to further help the user.
 
This same setup could also be applied to article pages for Beginning, Intermediate, and Advanced level design sections. Some of these pages could also have repeating information, which would be okay. Or if too much information is repeating, then traffic could be redirected to locations which contain that information. For example, HL2: Episode One relies on everything from HL2. So, the sub-level design page for HL2: Episode One could contain all the information on the HL2 page plus any additional information specific to Episode One, '''or''' it could contain only the information specific to Episode One (HDR for example) and any other information from HL2 could be referred to via a link to the HL2 page.
 
 
----
 
If, in all my use of this wiki, there has been one thing as a Level Designer / Artist that has rubbed me the wrong way it has been not being able to find the information that I've needed, when I've needed to find it. There is a lot of good information here, but a lot of it is buried. Hopefully, providing a more-robust look at the underlying information available by documenting the types of information available and categorizing it properly will help people find the information they want faster.
 
What do you think? --[[User:Kal Esh|Kal Esh]] 13:47, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
: Hmmm... even HDR is something that could be split up and cross-referenced as far as game dependent information (HDR Sky values for HL2: Episode One) versus game independent ("How to best effectively use HDR", or, "HDR and YOU", or "What the *&#@*&@& is HDR?" type of articles) --[[User:Kal Esh|Kal Esh]] 13:50, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
 
----
 
'''Comments go here:'''
 
 
Nice, i didn't think anyone would get tis into it, and yes i agree with you Jeff, right now sliming it perhaps might be a better idea, yet that was not what i was going for. I just wanted to have everything under category's, to allow easy fallment and placement of items and subjects.  Mainly the page looks like crap right now, going with what Kal Esh said, hes right, you want to find the info you are looking for and that was my idea. so when you looked under Intermediate, you would see " Oh HDR is advanced or heres intermediate lighting, or well there is intermediate architecture. Hard at first but i suppose me and you can brainstorm a better idea Kal and everyones options can be included.
 
Also hey Kal send me a message if your comfortable doing this with me, as a base we can work with this oage at the meantime. [[mrwtoidea]]
 
Other than that we might need to do alot of work on it but hey, whatever makes it better as its freakin ugly right now.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 20:21, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:Comparing the two versions, at first glance, the current/old one looks more streamlined and welcoming. (This page is one of the first ones that a beginner will look at, so it's supposed to be as far from detail it can be. detailing pages can always be put in the sub pages.) I was bothered by the numerous headers breaking up the page on your version. Can you explain what looks ugly about it now? --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 04:35, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
Oh one more thing, thats alot of work if we are gonna do all that Kal proposed.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 20:22, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
I have seen some other wikis and there are alot more organized and streamlined than this one, this wiki needs alot of work to begin with, we still have alot of unfinished pages and detail that might be incorrect, also the damn spammers.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 05:16, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:What do you mean? If large changes to heavy trafic pages aren't considered carefully, we risk getting an even bigger mess than you seem to say that we're in now. This page looks like its supposed to be the first access to level design, from which all other areas can be reached both directly (through the list) and indirectly (through the links you want to change). That list is the last thing on which to put details, which seems to be your idea. The more links we can put away into sub-pages, the better.
::Yes. That's primarily my idea, streamline the main-page and start pushing much of the detail into the sub-pages. --[[User:Kal Esh|Kal Esh]] 18:34, 8 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:Let's for instance bring up [[Phong]]. This is one of many shaders ([[Bump mapping]], [[Parallax mapping]], [[Cubemaps]], ...). While I'm for a mention of the [[Shader]] article, from which to link these types, I don't think that such a minor part of the engine deserve to take up space on the list. Newcomers would go like "Oh s--t, I have to learn about phong shading right away in order to set up the lighting. No way. Sc--w this." --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 07:24, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
::Exactly --[[User:Kal Esh|Kal Esh]] 18:34, 8 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
Yeah thats may a reason why i was very finicky about the phong page being there but i wanted to get peoples option anyways. If we are gonna make anything better we should start now, or at least thinking of some types of ways we can edit the page without destroying it.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 09:24, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:It's not really about "Should we edit this page or leave it be?". We need something to go on: Could you summarize which links you want to put there, which to move around, and which to put elsewhere? (It's kind of hard to compare this version to the other version just by looking at the finished result.) However, from here on I'll probably stay away from the debate - I have my own part of the wiki to worry about. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 11:52, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:::Honestly, I currently don't have the time to work on this. If [[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] wants to keep working on his version I'm fine with that. I'll be putting up my own version linked off my page with my proposed changes so people can take a look at it and give feedback in about three weeks. At that time I'll write more in-depth about what decisions I made and why I think they need to be made and I will appreciate your input [[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] along with [[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]]'s and anyone else's. My current gripes lay with the current amount of information displayed to the user. I my opinion, beginning users can easily get lost due to too much information (information overload). Whereas it's not quite powerful enough for intermediate / advanced users looking to find all the information they want in a quick and timely fashion. I spend a lot of time making searching randomly because the information I am searching for is not properly linked from any of the main, secondary, or tertiary pages. If anyone disagrees with this I would appreciate their input as I'll take that into account regarding all of this. --[[User:Kal Esh|Kal Esh]] 18:32, 8 Sep 2007 (PDT)
 
== Is Gmod useful as a level design tool? ==
 
If I've understood correctly [[Garry's Mod]] would appear to offer a useful interface for placing physics props and static 'set-dressing' in your new level ... Load your map into Gmod9.x, add models and fiddle with physics, then export as VMF. (Apparently Gmod10.x currently lacks the 'export VMF' function (?), which is disappointing.) If so, isn't it worth mentioning here? or have I got the wrong end of the stick :?  [[User:Beeswax|Beeswax]]
:I suppose it would work, just take into account that you might get errors if you place props that the game in question does not support (though the chances are minimal since every multiplayer game is updated to the new engine version). --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 07:58, 14 Oct 2007 (PDT)
:I don't think it will work. 1st the gmod10 hasnt got the export vmf, 2nd gmod uses lua to create all the things. So if you use any of the tools there, it might start giving errors and such. --[[User:Boebi|Boebi]] 03:45, 28 Oct 2007 (PDT)
 
== Vehicles in Hl2 DM ? ==
 
I've been looking, but can't find wether you can use vehicles in half life 2 deathmatch. I mean, can I use the jeep ? --[[User:Boebi|Boebi]] 03:45, 28 Oct 2007 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 10:38, 13 April 2022


Development workflow

Could I ask that someone knowledgeable add some information on how multiple people can work together on the same map (form a technical point of view) eg if I were editing code as part of a team, we'd have source control which would allow us to merge changes on checkin. Is this possible with VTF files or is it only possible for a single person to work on a given level at any one time? What workflow do Valve employ? Thanks Basiclife 00:24, 22 January 2013 (PST)

Setting up Hammer

After downloading the sourcesdk through steam, I attempted to use hammer, and when I double-clicked on it, it brought up a window w/ several tabs and forms to fill. The window's title is: Configure Hammer, and I must not have done something right (I hit cancel because I wasn't expecting to see this window and frankly didn't know what to put in the blanks.) because after going through a tutorial (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Your_First_Map) I began to notice that I don't have all the options that this tutorial says I should. One example is that I don't have a dev devwall filter for textures. Has anyone else encountered something similar to this and can you help me? --Raiden 11:32, 18 Jun 2008 (CST)

Have you launched the game you're trying to map for recently? --TomEdwards 13:15, 18 Jun 2008 (PDT)

Reorganizing the Level Design page

I'd like to reorganize the layout of this page, I think the current layout is a bit too cluttered and may be confusing for the new user to navigate. I've seen a lot of the questions on the help pages here and in the Steam forums about topics already covered here on the VDC. I know part of this may likely be due to ignorance or plain laziness, but another part is due to users simply being unable to find what they are looking for. I've had trouble finding articles myself and there have been several duplicate articles created for this reason as well.

My proposals:

  1. (complete) remove the "Half-Life 2", "TF2" titles that link to the general game info pages, these can be linked to from within the design page of the game (ie: This page lists mapping articles which are specific to Left 4 Dead)
  2. (complete) pull all the mapping articles from here that only apply to 1 or 2 specific games and instead place them in the level design pages for those games. It doesn't make sense to leave these articles listed on the main page as they don't help users who don't own those specific games.
  3. (complete) remove the "intermediate / difficult" classifications and instead relocate these links into more specific subsections (eg: lighting, sound, environment, etc).
  4. (complete) De-link (orphan) the "Abstract Mapping" section and relocate the useful information from there into the subtopics mentioned above. As it is now, most of the links in that section simply redirect other pages, if not to the same pages. Very few of them actually contain useful content themselves and I see no reason to leave the section listed as it is.

I've already done a rough mock-up for my redesign idea for those interested. Anyways, other ideas and suggestions are welcome. --brandished 01:13, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

CleanUp\Reorganize:
Well, as it's been close to a month and there have been no replies to my proposal, I'm guessing either no one has any problems with my suggestions or they have been completely overlooked. To make sure the later isn't true, I've placed a notice on the level design page. If no one brings up any objections or other options to my suggestions within the next week, I'll go ahead and start restructuring the category along the guidelines I listed above. --brandished 02:30, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
I never noticed this... But I'd agree with you to go ahead. I was looking at that mockup page on the recent edits page and thought it looked much better, I didn't check what it was for though. But you've always done good edits on the VDC, so you have my vote :) --DannyS 03:28, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Heh, you caught me in the middle of an edit. I would have put a notice up earlier, but I wasn't to happy with how the initial mockup looked, so I've been messing around with that page the past few weeks to find something a bit more structured. I still want to make a few more changes to it, but I think it's mostly workable. --brandished 03:59, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Since I did not see any objections or other ideas, I've gone ahead and carried out my restructuring idea. I changed a few things not in my original list above:
  • I moved a lot of the design theory articles off the front page. While some of them might not necessarily been intended to be games specific, they heavily utilized examples that only someone who had played a specific game would be familiar with. It's not that I don't think they don't belong on the front page, it's just they way they are currently written limits their usefulness to specific games.
  • Although I removed the Abstract Mapping section from the main page and the Abstract Mapping header from most of the non-redundant sub-pages in it, I decided against completely orphaning it as many foreign language pages are using the content which I cannot easily fix.
On another note, Half-Life 2: Deathmatch is currently grouped in with Half-Life 2 Level Creation, but it really should have it's own page as most of the articles in the Half-Life 2 Level Creation page are not applicable to the game (eg: Dynamic assaults, Nodegraph construction, etc). --brandished 01:19, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm removing some articles related to general texture \ model creation as well. I don't think these really belong in the level design section. I can see something like linking an article on how to create skyboxes to Skybox (2D) making sense, but listing them directly under general level design doesn't. Another exception would be for game specific stuff, like level overviews for CSS/DODS and Maplist Thumbnails for TF2, but I think general material creation articles should stay in the material creation section. --brandished 23:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Looks good man, this is what I tried earlier and failed at :D. Otherwise it feels nice and homely. I'm glad that it worked out with all the changes made to VDC along side.--Gear 04:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I looked over your earlier design when I was gathering ideas for the new layout. I still think this page needs some more work, but at least now there should be less digging trying to find the specific articles. --brandished 23:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
hi guys. im new to this wiki editing thing as well as to source so forgive me for not doing this comment properly. well basically that same inexperience , i thought, might help give a unique perspective to this page as im currently trying to learn from scratch how to level design through this wiki. the page is definitely easier to understand now. it was wierd having the links to the invidiual game level design pages in such an akward place before. however i do suggest the following:
  • changing the title "game specific articles" to "game specific level design."
  • i also feel that some sort of connection has to be made right after "making your first map" and the game specific articles [game specific level design] perhaps some text below the title of game specific... saying something like "Below are game specific game level design articles that we recommend to be started after building your first map.
  • if im not mistaken there is advanced lighting??? so that should either be added to the lighting list or all should be removed leaving one link to a lighting page with sub-links to basic, intermediate, advanced.
  • 2d vs 3d skyboxes. i still dont understand when to use what and this "main level deisgn page" doesn't suggest either. should there be a link to one skybox page with a general description + differences between them , then links to each? or should that whole thing just be here in the level design page with skybox getting its own sub-category after getting started?
--azar 09:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
its seems that there is also an intermediate design page Level Design. i feel taht there should be some sort of direct link from this "main" or "basic" level design page to provide a smooth road map for learning for a new person. any suggestions on how this should be integrated? its not obvious if a person should continue to it after the whole "getting started category" or after the "game specific level design" or in parallel with game specific [and how do we show that? perhaps text in parentheses saying "to be followed in parallel with game specific" ]. the intermediate page itself says it should be started right after "your first map." im not sure if thats best as it would jsut make the time before you getting your hands dirty in the specific game type you want to create too long. anyone agree/disagree? suggestions? --azar 09:53, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Welcome to the VDC. I agree, the level design page could still use some reworking. As for skyboxes, a 2D skybox is just brushes textured with the skybox texture used for bringing in the sky textures, a 3D skybox is used to create the illusion of a world outside the playable portion of the map. I'm not sure about the intermediate design pages, although they do have a significant amount of content, the section as a whole was never really finished, I believe this was why it wasn't linked. It could still probably be linked over, but possibly with a disclaimer stating the above. If you unsure about editing the WiKi, be sure to check out the Help:Editing section. Also, feel free to ask questions if there is something you aren't certain about, although it may be awhile before you get a response. --brandished 17:00, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Adding articles

AI section? you know, for NPCs assaults etc. (or a link to it)

trains? shouldn't they be connecting areas

MLSTRM 15:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

"Player_Start"

Ok, i've made a few "simple" mods and now im trying to get serious. But, two problems keep occurring, 1; I can't find a way to make the Player start with a certain apparatus, like weapons and the HEV suit (i am modding Half Life 2) and secondly; i can't figure out how to make the player's current apparatus "roll over" into the next level once they change... Any help would be highly appreciated,

P.S i didn't know which category this topic would go under; so i just put it under Level Design in General.

Thank you.

Decompiling

I think there should be a link to the decompiling article on this page somewhere. It is related, and it should be made more obvious so people read the ethics on it. —Unsigned comment added by Lancelot (talk • contribs) Always sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~)

(Two years later) It is here. —Mattshu 06:42, 30 September 2011 (PDT)

Removal of Source mod level creation link?

Anyone know why the link to all the Source mods level creation page was removed? I'm thinking it needs to be added back - Wazanator

Clipping Gaps.

Anyone know how to fix the gaps in the ground along where it was clipped? Slits.png I've tried manually lining them up until they're aligned but it's taking forever, there has to be a quicker way.

When something like this happened to me, the easiest way was to quickly Undo (Ctrl+Z) it before I made any more edits. It's better to just delete the brush and create a new one if you can't undo it. —Mattshu 06:40, 30 September 2011 (PDT)
On second thought, that doesn't help at all. If your displacement looks like this, try sewing it. If that doesn't work, then the displacements aren't lining up correctly. Resize it and try again. —Mattshu 00:43, 22 January 2013 (PST)

Should there be a tutorial for procedural generation?

Seeing as how it is possible in CS:GO to perform procedural generation, as proven by Orelstealth, I figure that there should be a tutorial so people can do procedural generation in Source easier.

English Translation by 3kliksphilip Original by Orelstealth - Amicdict (talk) 18:53, 30 August 2021 (PDT)

What's the point of a "Specific Engines" section?

TheBlokker & Gaijinviking why exactly do we need a "Specific Engines" section? Source_Basic_Level_Creation is for starters not a great path name for a page that is titled "Source Level Design" and this page just seems to be a mirror of information that is already on the Level Design category page?

There is no reason for a Source 2 page when pages already exist on the sidebar that directly takes you to Dota2, Half-Life: Alyx, and SteamVR tools that each has their section on level design.

GoldSrc (not "GoldSource") should have a similar breakdown section as SDK_Docs and not cannibalize sections that were made and have been operated as being for the Source Engine for the past 17 years. You need to understand what pages link here both inside the VDC and externally. You can not just go and do drastic changes like this, they should be first talked about here in the discussion section. --Wazanator (talk) 14:04, 12 April 2022 (PDT)

So should we wipe Source 2 and GoldSrc from this page as it's a dedicated Source Level Design page and not a general Valve Level Design Page? (All the Source-Specific Articles lead me to this conclusion) --GaijinViking 17:16, 12 April 2022 (PDT)

I would think so, I think combining multiple engines on pages is going to be really confusing to readers. The goal should be to make it easy to flow from article to article that is relevant to the reader. Example: If you are brand new and want to learn what NPC's are available to map with in HL2 the flow might be something like Source SDK Index to level design to half-life 2 to the NPCs & AI section. --Wazanator (talk) 10:37, 13 April 2022 (PDT)
Retrieved from "https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Level_Design&oldid=254358"