Talk:Valve Hammer Editor
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Splitting the page
Right now the page is a really, really awful mess of information on three separate eras Hammers piled onto each other with random tidbits (like on Narbacular Drop) propped up amidst it at the very top.
For something so integral to GoldSrc and Source modding as Hammer of all things, it simply hurts to see now.
The infobox is simply wrong as it tries to tie three engines to one editor.
Over half of the article's size is taken up by version info (a purely historical information).
It is effectively useless as a source of information on any of the Hammers.
I propose splitting it into three separate pages, which I've drafted up. The idea is:
User:Cvoxalury/Valve_Hammer_Editor for the GoldSrc one. It lists its history briefly, and leads to either GoldSrc categories or TWHL, as VDC is mostly underdocumented in regards to GoldSrc. With hopes of expanding and correcting that.
The name of the article will stay (so, the contents of what I linked, will replace the current page), a couple redirects, like Hammer (GoldSrc) will be added.
User:Cvoxalury/Hammer for the Source 1 Hammer. It is the primary Hammer whereas VDC is concerned, owing to its time to creation and body of community work. So the categories that currently link to this article, will be changed to lead to that. Which I can handle.
User:Cvoxalury/Hammer_(Source 2) for Source 2 Hammer. The shortest and stubbiest article, because I don't work with it, and the section in this article is as stubby. I've seen more activity recently on Source 2 documentation front, so hopefully that'll change.
All these aren't meant to encompass the whole huge subject of working in Hammer. For that there's separate long established categories (well, for Source there are, at least). It is meant to provide clear info on what Hammer(s) is/are, how to start with it. The current page, again, just isn't doing it.
The formatting of these drafts isn't final (but the farther they stay from the pile of coloured boxes and text and plaques, the better). I advise against using the {{Leveleditors}} navbox in general. Naturally, each page will only need one of the tools navboxes. And so on.
P. S. Can the rest of the talk page be archived? I don't know how it's done. Cvoxalury (talk) 17:12, 20 July 2024 (PDT)
- It seems a bit unintuitive for "Valve Hammer Editor" and "Hammer" to refer to two different versions of the same program, even if it is how Valve titled them. I'd go for "Hammer (GoldSrc)" for the former instead of just a redirect, especially considering Source 2 Hammer is already titled that way, although I suppose it's not a big deal if it's made clear at the top of the page.
- It's also worth mentioning some entities which exist in both Source and GoldSrc (e.g. env_global) use a template called {{tabs}} to make it easy to navigate between them. I'm not particularly familiar with this template and it does seem to have a lot of fluff on the inside, but it might be worth considering for this.
- Otherwise, I think the pages you've drafted up look good so far, and I support splitting up the Hammer article in this way. —Blixibon (talk) 20:13, 20 July 2024 (PDT)
- Splitting the Valve Hammer Editor page into 3 different ones would be good because the page would be less messy to read and edit. The {{tabs}} template can be used for easier navigation. The idea to make the {{leveleditors}} template came up because "Hey, there is a lot of level editors! Why not create a navbox for them?", but the same can be said to any other tool category, like: Modeling tools, texture tools, etc.
- Also, what about a gallery section on those/this page? There is a lot of screenshots of Hammer Editor that are only use on some pages. And one last thing, what about adding more editors to the "Alternatives to Hammer Editor" Section? Like Svencraft or something else, there are a lot more editors (just look here (Im talking about the Goldsrc section in that navbox, other sections i just made for having a list of editors for various games, engines, etc. without having to search for them to try and find any info on them)) that are not very known and hard to find any info about, so probably dont list them, but its probably better to just make a page listing all the alternatives for Hammer Editor (If there isn't one already). Im not trying to force these edits to your pages, im just giving ideas. You can always decline them. -Mr. System Error(T - C) 15:19, 25 July 2024 (PDT)
- Yes, I'm aware there's more than just those VHE alternatives like Svencraft. I want to point to them too, and expanding the gallery can be done (splash and main view are in theory enough if it's going to link to more in-detail pages about working in VHE, but since they don't yet exist for Goldsrc version...). I'm lagging behind a bit on my own proposition due to lack of time but I'll catch up. And thanks for the suggestions! Cvoxalury (talk) 12:33, 26 July 2024 (PDT)