Template talk:Discussion page
Currently, if you open an older version of a page from its history (not the comparison view) that has this template at its top, then the content of this template overlaps with the link to the next newer/older version in the history. I guess that's due to some hard placement of the <div>. I don't trust myself to fix this myself, can you? --popcorn (talk) 17:15, 24 July 2023 (PDT)
At it again?
You're at it again, User:THE OWL? Why aren't you satisfied with how they already look?
No, there doesn't need to be a big button all the way to the right that duplicates Add Topic that's shared across virtually every wiki.
- Addendum: oh, and the way it works - hides the whole page slowly and unrolls a list of links? Why would anyone want it when they could middle click the old button to open that list separately? (the tabs can't even be middle-clicked!)
No, moving archives to a tab instead of a button isn't helpful.
No, orange underlining of tabs isn't good.
You've already made Discussion worse once. And there was a big mess with the Message template that wrecked Talk pages going back in time to the foundation of the wiki. (no, it doesn't matter that it technically wasn't yours - it was incorporated into the process)
In words of the Half-Life Science team, stahp. Cvoxalury (talk) 06:53, 17 July 2024 (PDT)
User:Nescius, please roll back the edits to the last version before today and consider protecting the template. It's used on hundreds of talk pages and only a short while ago the 'unholy things' done with templates were called out as damaging the wiki going 20 years back. The further improvement of this template (which there's definitely room for - I'll start a new topic on that later) ideally should be done only through communication with the moderation staff. Cvoxalury (talk) 07:23, 17 July 2024 (PDT)
- I could see that you reverted the changes yourself after this topic was opened, but I'm assuming you intend to implement a later iteration at some point. I do feel uneasy about making sudden changes to this template with no consensus considering recent events. It might be better if you actually explain what you want to change, and why.
- If I understand the edit summaries correctly, these changes originated from a Discord server. Out of curiosity, what is this Discord server? Is it associated with the VDC in any way? Is it open to the public? --Blixibon (talk) 11:13, 17 July 2024 (PDT)
- I've reverted the changes since I checked what was needed. I was wondering how quickly all the discussion pages would update. It was almost instantaneous.
- The template isn't finalized yet and I can't save it now. The recent changes were for the sake of the test, as mentioned in the change comment. I edited the template code a bit during the test, but that's because I was too lazy to go to my sandbox, so I made some edits before finishing the test.
- In the comment about undoing recent changes, I meant what the template looks like now. I originally made it by copying a message from the beginning of any Discord channel. It's not an afterthought or anything, this template is a literal copy of a part of Discord that should have been replaced anyway (it just doesn't look good on this wiki). Aside from that, this template shouldn't overlap the page title, language bar, top icons, and subpages, so this won't happen in the new version.
- Also, I'm annoyed by this hunt by other people for any change I make. Calm down, it's not normal when you almost instantly say "No" to almost everything I've added.
- I'll be editing the template here from time to time.
- it's not normal when you almost instantly say "No" to almost everything I've added - which isn't what happened. You were making maintenance and adjusting edits for the past few days without a single comment or interruption from me. As you noted yourself, changes to the discussion template are almost instanenous, so I noticed it quickly, and went here, to warn against messing with it.
- The template in your sandbox doesn't look promising. That's your territory, and I don't care how you do it there. But I still say this template should be protected, including from your changes. Moving the archives into a tab is not a functional idea. Renaming Help as Documentation is confusing. And the current design issues with this template aren't being addressed. Cvoxalury (talk) 13:20, 17 July 2024 (PDT)
Current flaws of the template
1. It repeats itself. Example A. Repeating the talk page title two times in a row. That's in the tested new version.
- Example B. The old/current version. It only repeats itself once, but with a huge icon on the side. And huge header. Why?
- If people clicked on the talk page, they probably know where they are. A small reminder is okay. A huge header just assumes people can't read normal-sized text.
- What the template should be doing is informing them what the talk pages are for, with quick reminder about how to use them.
- Example C - a good talk page. A short template says what the talk page is, explains how to start a new topic, reminds it's not for debating the lore/etc, and the policies (can be swapped with Help page).
2. It for some reason calls Help "documentation". Documentation is more about how to use technical templates on pages. "Help" is about how to properly participate. A person who's new to it would look for help. And that's exactly what can be linked to in a small brief notice a la COW's pages.
3. What we can see right now on Talk:Main Page is that the template that's meant to help, managed to push the actual conversations almost out of the screen (yes, half of that job was done by TOC). EVERYTHING it needs can fit inside its first three lines if it weren't for the huge header and icon.
To conclude. It should be smaller, not wordy, not do things it doesn't need. It doesn't even need to welcome users, actually. They're talk pages. They don't have to hug people. They need to get to the point. Cvoxalury (talk) 13:45, 17 July 2024 (PDT)