Talk:SDK Docs: Difference between revisions

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The idea of having a 'community area' for the documentation index seems redundant. Over time, I wouldn't want the site to split into the areas that Valve authored vs. the areas that the community authored. Does it make sense to roll this into the rest of the index? [[User:Erik Johnson|Erik Johnson]]
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|text=*[http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=109619 August 4 2008]<br />
* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=116470 April 30 2009]<br />
* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=163196 December 05 2011]
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== Shortname or longname ==
Compare this [[Template:KV_RenderFields]] and this [[Template:KV_Shadow]] and this [[Template:I_RenderFields]]. As you can see, sometimes it's "bool"/"int" but sometimes "boolean"/"integer". What will be better to use? --[[User:Mehiller|Mehiller]] 21:54, 2 May 2012 (PDT)
:In my opinion, "boolean" and "integer" is friendlier for non-programmers, though I would prefer the shorthand versions. That's just me. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 23:11, 11 July 2012 (PDT)


I agree.  I think it will complicate the process of finding the information you want, mix up the Wiki categorization, and make us wonder if it's okay to edit the original documents.  And there are already a few documents written that have already been mixed in.
== SFM link ==


- [[User:Mungo|Mungo]]
The link at the Source page for the [[Source Filmmaker]] leads to a Category page. Which isn't supposed to happen. Can you guys fix it? --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 23:39, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
:I'm thinking that was intentional. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 23:56, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
::Uh-huh… Did you check the history yet? Any edit—even the vandalism type—gets recorded their, right? --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 00:13, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
:::Yes. You're referring to the link on [[SDK Docs]], right? &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 00:16, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
::::Yeah. I remember checking it yesterday, but it must've slipped my mind today. --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 12:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
::::Nevermind. It's someone named Dmx6 who did the edit. --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 12:45, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
:::::{{user|Dmx6}} is a regular, trusted contributor to the wiki. It is linked to the category page because it contains many resources for using SMF. Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're seeing the vandalism. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 22:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)


I played it safe and assumed you wouldn't want the two mixed. I'll merge them now. --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 11:10, 28 Jun 2005 (PDT)
== New design ==


----
I've been testing the [[User:THE OWL/Sandbox/Pages/Software docs|new design]] in my sandbox. It's not finished as I don't work with VDC very often now, but I still wanted to offer a new look.


OK, problem. We are currently linking to Categories with <nowiki>{{Category:Modeling}}</nowiki>. That displays the description of the category and they've all been filled in to have all the current pages. But that isn't the category, it's just a copy of it. If anyone wants to add to the description they've got to go and manually edit the page, defeating the point of having a category in the first place. We need to be able to list the category contents themselves on the page if we want it to keep itself up to date, or link through to the category pages and lose searchability.
[[File:Source SDK documentation page redesign.jpg|400px]]
--[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 11:25, 28 Jun 2005 (PDT)


Doing it this way allows the topics to be manually arranged in a useful order on this page by editing the Category pages. But, yeah, there should probably also be a link to each category page here so you can also jump to the alphabetical lists. edit: I see you added that...I think it's a good solution. It is still an extra step to manually edit the category pages, but that lets us put them in a useful order for this page. -[[User:Mungo|Mungo]]
=== Pros ===
* There is now quick access to Source Engine branches and their SDKs.
: {{Note|Not that it's useful, but when I needed it, I couldn't find the tool I needed  quickly because someone didn't even bother to create a redirect from Source SDK Base 2013 to Source SDK 2013 🗿}}
* Now games don't hide from you. Documentation of their tools is right on the Source SDK page.
: {{Note|The level design page with a link to the games now doesn't always link to the level design (for example, [[Team Fortress 2/Docs]]), and you have to do more unnecessary actions to reach the game tools page.}}
* The colors and larger content size will help you find the right link faster.
* The new design should look better on mobile devices (well, if rewritten).


TBH I think alphabetically is the most useful. The current setup doesn't solve the problem of getting the self-updating lists onto the main page though, so it's not terribly useful.
=== Cons ===
--[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 11:49, 28 Jun 2005 (PDT)
* My design offers a larger view of the links, which forces you to scroll down the page to reach certain links.
: {{Note|I don't think it's a problem because it's easier to identify links. Spending time on scrolling is much less than trying to find a certain link among a bunch of other links in a row.}}


True, alphabetical is very useful. I thought it could be useful to arrange these in tables with headings like Basics, Advanced, Troubleshooting.  Then if someone wants an alphabetical list, they can click on the title.  I don't know if the software can automatically put the alphabeticized lists on this page. -[[User:Mungo|Mungo]]
--[[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 22:00, 3 November 2024 (PST)
:: New design is not needed. The current one works perfectly fine and I don't have to scroll to see all links. One thing from it that would be good to do is adding the links to individual game doc pages but not with such overly huge boxes --[[User:Nescius|Nescius]] ([[User talk:Nescius|talk]]) 07:12, 4 November 2024 (PST)
::: I'll try to do something about it later.
::: [[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]])


That's a good idea, but a lot of work. It will get forgotten and be worse than useless because everyone will assume what's there on the page is all there is. --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 12:14, 28 Jun 2005 (PDT)
== About the Brief Description ==
I added a simple description to make this SDK documentation similar to all the others. Also, I think it helps to find different versions of Source SDK faster.


True...it's already too much work to manually add new topics to their category pages so they appear here.  But I don't know if there's a solution to that.  Maybe it would be best just to put a small note after the big categories like Level Design and Coding that links to the Category page.  Otherwise, this page is going to become an enormous, unorganized, incomplete list. -[[User:Mungo|Mungo]]
I'm sure it's useful, and beginners to working with Source in general didn't get a brief description of the here and now before.


Or go back to descriptive categories with titles as links. ;-) --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 12:23, 28 Jun 2005 (PDT)
I'm leaving this topic here to explain the reason for adding the description and to provide a place to discuss this edit, if any.


Okay, I like this: Do what you said, but type the descriptions directly into this page.  Then on the category page, we have the option to put an organized short list(s) of some of the basic articles that beginners would want to look at first.  The alphabetical list automatically appears below. --[[User:Mungo|Mungo]]
--[[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 16:19, 13 May 2025 (PDT)
 
----
Isn't AI just part of Level Design? -Mungo
 
Aren't materials too? It's signifigantly different and in future will likley contain coding material too. --[[User:Tom Edwards|Tom Edwards]] 07:58, 29 Jun 2005 (PDT)
 
gotcha -Mungo
 
I'm wondering if a single-player HL2-specific category would be useful. Stuff like basic map design often covers other mods such as CS:S, but in-depth HL2 articles and associated entity documentation could probably go in their own area. Like the excellent [[Assaults]] article. :-) [[User:Cargo Cult|Cargo Cult]] 05:37, 30 Jun 2005 (PDT)
 
...Merging may help even more if there are some Mod specific categories.
As an example, an on-going problem in the Source SDK Chatbear forums is knowing what members want when they ask questions or are searching for solutions. "Will this work in CS:S?"
i.e., Ropes, Sounds, Ladders, Entity types.
No doubt there will always be some repetition.
--[[User:Mark WiseCarver|Mark WiseCarver]]
:I gather that MediaWiki allows articles to appear in multiple categories, so a basic article on, say, vertex manipulation could appear in all appropriate sections - e.g. 'HL2 Deathmatch', 'CS:Source', 'HL2 SP' etc, while more mod- or game-specific articles could appear in just one. Something like that, anyway! [[User:Cargo Cult|Cargo Cult]] 06:55, 1 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
The Tutorials category is not linked from anywhere, shouldn't it be added to this category page? --[[User:SubKamran|SubKamran]] 09:15, 4 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
== Article page renaming and linking ==
 
Renaming a page is really crappy. I created a entity description for ai_battle_line. I clicked the link in the Entity list and started editing an article called "AI Battle Line". I tried to rename it to ai_battle_line after I've finished, but it didn't work. And the bigger problem was the linking to such a page. When typing ...wiki/ai_battle_line in the address bar of the browser you'll get to the AI Battle Line page. But an internal wiki link to ai_battle_line appears in red (and with action=edit), because the name of the article is "AI Battle Line".
Can anyone (maybe an admin) rename the "AI Battle Line" to "ai_battle_line" so the ai_battle_line internal links work correct. --[[User:King2500|King2500]] 16:04, 21 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
:I'm not sure how you did this. The link in the entity list is "ai_battle_line", not "AI Battle Line". The initial capital letter is irrelevant, but the caps on "Battle" and "Line" are important and will point at a different page. Clicking the any of the red links in the entity page creates the correct page name. You must have created "AI Battle Line" by editing a url directly or moving/renaming after you created the page. I fixed it by moving it to a temporary name, then moving it to the ''correct'' name, "Ai battle line". --[[User:JeffLane|JeffLane]] 21:21, 21 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
::Thanks Jeff. I tried the same, but it didn't work to rename it back, because of the redirect.--[[User:King2500|King2500]] 06:01, 22 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
== Logic gates ==
 
Unless I'm being stupid there don't appear to be entities for any of the standard logic gates. There's no AND, OR NOT, NOR, XOR or any of the others. It's probably possible to emulate all of them (certainly AND) but that's not a very good solution... --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 04:34, 27 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
== How do you use maplist.txt? ==
 
im trying to make a short single player mod and cant figure out how to make levels appear when you click 'new game'
right now the menu is blank, and i assume it has something to do with maplist.txt, the console informs me it cannot find the file

Latest revision as of 16:56, 13 May 2025

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This is the discussion page of SDK Docs. To add a comment, use the Edit button near the headline of the appropriate section. To create a new section, you can use the Add topic button at the top of this page.
Comments on talk pages should be signed with "~~~~", which will be converted into your signature and a timestamp.
*August 4 2008

Shortname or longname

Compare this Template:KV_RenderFields and this Template:KV_Shadow and this Template:I_RenderFields. As you can see, sometimes it's "bool"/"int" but sometimes "boolean"/"integer". What will be better to use? --Mehiller 21:54, 2 May 2012 (PDT)

In my opinion, "boolean" and "integer" is friendlier for non-programmers, though I would prefer the shorthand versions. That's just me. —Mattshu 23:11, 11 July 2012 (PDT)

SFM link

The link at the Source page for the Source Filmmaker leads to a Category page. Which isn't supposed to happen. Can you guys fix it? --017Bluefield 23:39, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

I'm thinking that was intentional. —Mattshu 23:56, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
Uh-huh… Did you check the history yet? Any edit—even the vandalism type—gets recorded their, right? --017Bluefield 00:13, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Yes. You're referring to the link on SDK Docs, right? —Mattshu 00:16, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Yeah. I remember checking it yesterday, but it must've slipped my mind today. --017Bluefield 12:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Nevermind. It's someone named Dmx6 who did the edit. --017Bluefield 12:45, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Dmx6 is a regular, trusted contributor to the wiki. It is linked to the category page because it contains many resources for using SMF. Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're seeing the vandalism. —Mattshu 22:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)

New design

I've been testing the new design in my sandbox. It's not finished as I don't work with VDC very often now, but I still wanted to offer a new look.

Source SDK documentation page redesign.jpg

Pros

  • There is now quick access to Source Engine branches and their SDKs.
Note.pngNote:Not that it's useful, but when I needed it, I couldn't find the tool I needed quickly because someone didn't even bother to create a redirect from Source SDK Base 2013 to Source SDK 2013 🗿
  • Now games don't hide from you. Documentation of their tools is right on the Source SDK page.
Note.pngNote:The level design page with a link to the games now doesn't always link to the level design (for example, Team Fortress 2/Docs), and you have to do more unnecessary actions to reach the game tools page.
  • The colors and larger content size will help you find the right link faster.
  • The new design should look better on mobile devices (well, if rewritten).

Cons

  • My design offers a larger view of the links, which forces you to scroll down the page to reach certain links.
Note.pngNote:I don't think it's a problem because it's easier to identify links. Spending time on scrolling is much less than trying to find a certain link among a bunch of other links in a row.

--THE OWL (talk) 22:00, 3 November 2024 (PST)

New design is not needed. The current one works perfectly fine and I don't have to scroll to see all links. One thing from it that would be good to do is adding the links to individual game doc pages but not with such overly huge boxes --Nescius (talk) 07:12, 4 November 2024 (PST)
I'll try to do something about it later.
THE OWL (talk)

About the Brief Description

I added a simple description to make this SDK documentation similar to all the others. Also, I think it helps to find different versions of Source SDK faster.

I'm sure it's useful, and beginners to working with Source in general didn't get a brief description of the here and now before.

I'm leaving this topic here to explain the reason for adding the description and to provide a place to discuss this edit, if any.

--THE OWL (talk) 16:19, 13 May 2025 (PDT)

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