Talk:SDK Docs: Difference between revisions

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<strong style="display:block;text-align:center;">Archives</strong>
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* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=109619 August 4 2008]
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* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=116470 April 30 2009]
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|text=*[http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=109619 August 4 2008]<br />
* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=116470 April 30 2009]<br />
* [http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:SDK_Docs&oldid=163196 December 05 2011]
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== Shortname or longname ==
Compare this [[Template:KV_RenderFields]] and this [[Template:KV_Shadow]] and this [[Template:I_RenderFields]]. As you can see, sometimes it's "bool"/"int" but sometimes "boolean"/"integer". What will be better to use? --[[User:Mehiller|Mehiller]] 21:54, 2 May 2012 (PDT)
:In my opinion, "boolean" and "integer" is friendlier for non-programmers, though I would prefer the shorthand versions. That's just me. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 23:11, 11 July 2012 (PDT)


== Keyvalues or SmartEdit text? ==
== SFM link ==


How should the keyvalues for entities be described? The options are the following:
The link at the Source page for the [[Source Filmmaker]] leads to a Category page. Which isn't supposed to happen. Can you guys fix it? --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 23:39, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
:I'm thinking that was intentional. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 23:56, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
::Uh-huh… Did you check the history yet? Any edit—even the vandalism type—gets recorded their, right? --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 00:13, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
:::Yes. You're referring to the link on [[SDK Docs]], right? &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 00:16, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
::::Yeah. I remember checking it yesterday, but it must've slipped my mind today. --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 12:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
::::Nevermind. It's someone named Dmx6 who did the edit. --[[User:017Bluefield|017Bluefield]] 12:45, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
:::::{{user|Dmx6}} is a regular, trusted contributor to the wiki. It is linked to the category page because it contains many resources for using SMF. Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're seeing the vandalism. &mdash;[[User:Mattshu|Mattshu]] 22:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)


1. SmartEdit text only: the keyvalues are listed and described using the smartedit text only. Example: A possible value for the [[npc_citizen]] keyvalue "Ammo To Resupply" is "Crossbow Bolt".
== New design ==


2. Actual keyvalue: they keyvalues are listed and described using the actual keyvalues only. Example: A possible value for the [[npc_citizen]] keyvalue "AmmoSupply" is "XBowBolt".  
I've been testing the [[User:THE OWL/Sandbox/Pages/Software docs|new design]] in my sandbox. It's not finished as I don't work with VDC very often now, but I still wanted to offer a new look.


3. Both SmartEdit text and actual keyvalues: the keyvalues are listed and described using both systems. Example: A possible value for [[npc_citizen]] keyvalue "Ammo To Resupply (AmmoSupply)" is "Crossbow Bolt (XBowBolt)".
[[File:Source SDK documentation page redesign.jpg|400px]]


Previously, entries were generally a mixture of 1 and 3, with some keyvalues described using the smartedit text and then the "literal value" which was the actual keyvalue. These literal values are being removed as part of [[User:Tom Edwards|Tom's]] much-welcome cleanup of the entity entries. Using only 2 (the actual keyvalue) has led to some confusion, as in the recent back and forth edits of [[Env_hudhint]].
=== Pros ===
* There is now quick access to Source Engine branches and their SDKs.
: {{Note|Not that it's useful, but when I needed it, I couldn't find the tool I needed  quickly because someone didn't even bother to create a redirect from Source SDK Base 2013 to Source SDK 2013 🗿}}
* Now games don't hide from you. Documentation of their tools is right on the Source SDK page.
: {{Note|The level design page with a link to the games now doesn't always link to the level design (for example, [[Team Fortress 2/Docs]]), and you have to do more unnecessary actions to reach the game tools page.}}
* The colors and larger content size will help you find the right link faster.
* The new design should look better on mobile devices (well, if rewritten).


Ideally, there would be a link on each page (view entry as SmartEdit text / view entry as Keyvalues) which would switch between the two. If this is too complicated, then perhaps we could have some other system which would describe the relationship between keyvalues and their SmartEdit counterparts? --[[User:Fitzroy doll|Fitzroy doll]] 10:05, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
=== Cons ===
: Thanks for the support. I spent an unhealthy amount of time editing yesterday. ;-) My reasoning for removing the raw keyvalue names is that they are only ever seen when writing an [[FGD]] or [[DATADESC]]; the only other (and the most important) time KVs crop up is in Hammer dialogues, where SmartEdit gives them friendly names. Even if you turn SmartEdit off for some reason, you can always turn it back on again. --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 10:14, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
* My design offers a larger view of the links, which forces you to scroll down the page to reach certain links.
::Okay fair enough. The raw keyvalues also come up in mods in which users can create edits to entity tables by hand, outside hammer (GMOD, SMOD, Obsidian Conflict, Synergy, etc.) or when viewing ent tables extracted from bsps for reference. But I suppose these are specialised circumstances, not directly related to the use of the SDK itself. Many existing entity entries will need a look with this new view in mind to make the policy consistent, and perhaps a notice should be placed in the [[Help:Contents]] section to inform future editors. --[[User:Fitzroy doll|Fitzroy doll]] 10:36, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
: {{Note|I don't think it's a problem because it's easier to identify links. Spending time on scrolling is much less than trying to find a certain link among a bunch of other links in a row.}}


== Retiring [[Template:EP1 add]] ==
--[[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 22:00, 3 November 2024 (PST)
:: New design is not needed. The current one works perfectly fine and I don't have to scroll to see all links. One thing from it that would be good to do is adding the links to individual game doc pages but not with such overly huge boxes --[[User:Nescius|Nescius]] ([[User talk:Nescius|talk]]) 07:12, 4 November 2024 (PST)
::: I'll try to do something about it later.
::: [[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]])


I think we can assume that everyone is at least using the Ep1 codebase now. Retiring the template is easy: we just replace its contents with {{{1}}}.
== About the Brief Description ==
I added a simple description to make this SDK documentation similar to all the others. Also, I think it helps to find different versions of Source SDK faster.


Anyone feel that it still serves a purpose? --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 08:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure it's useful, and beginners to working with Source in general didn't get a brief description of the here and now before.


== Note/Tip/Warning/Bug message wrap ==
I'm leaving this topic here to explain the reason for adding the description and to provide a place to discuss this edit, if any.


See [[Template:Tip]] for my proposal. --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 10:23, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
--[[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 16:19, 13 May 2025 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 16:56, 13 May 2025

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This is the discussion page of SDK Docs. To add a comment, use the Edit button near the headline of the appropriate section. To create a new section, you can use the Add topic button at the top of this page.
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Shortname or longname

Compare this Template:KV_RenderFields and this Template:KV_Shadow and this Template:I_RenderFields. As you can see, sometimes it's "bool"/"int" but sometimes "boolean"/"integer". What will be better to use? --Mehiller 21:54, 2 May 2012 (PDT)

In my opinion, "boolean" and "integer" is friendlier for non-programmers, though I would prefer the shorthand versions. That's just me. —Mattshu 23:11, 11 July 2012 (PDT)

SFM link

The link at the Source page for the Source Filmmaker leads to a Category page. Which isn't supposed to happen. Can you guys fix it? --017Bluefield 23:39, 10 July 2012 (PDT)

I'm thinking that was intentional. —Mattshu 23:56, 10 July 2012 (PDT)
Uh-huh… Did you check the history yet? Any edit—even the vandalism type—gets recorded their, right? --017Bluefield 00:13, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Yes. You're referring to the link on SDK Docs, right? —Mattshu 00:16, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Yeah. I remember checking it yesterday, but it must've slipped my mind today. --017Bluefield 12:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Nevermind. It's someone named Dmx6 who did the edit. --017Bluefield 12:45, 11 July 2012 (PDT)
Dmx6 is a regular, trusted contributor to the wiki. It is linked to the category page because it contains many resources for using SMF. Sorry, but I'm not sure where you're seeing the vandalism. —Mattshu 22:42, 11 July 2012 (PDT)

New design

I've been testing the new design in my sandbox. It's not finished as I don't work with VDC very often now, but I still wanted to offer a new look.

Source SDK documentation page redesign.jpg

Pros

  • There is now quick access to Source Engine branches and their SDKs.
Note.pngNote:Not that it's useful, but when I needed it, I couldn't find the tool I needed quickly because someone didn't even bother to create a redirect from Source SDK Base 2013 to Source SDK 2013 🗿
  • Now games don't hide from you. Documentation of their tools is right on the Source SDK page.
Note.pngNote:The level design page with a link to the games now doesn't always link to the level design (for example, Team Fortress 2/Docs), and you have to do more unnecessary actions to reach the game tools page.
  • The colors and larger content size will help you find the right link faster.
  • The new design should look better on mobile devices (well, if rewritten).

Cons

  • My design offers a larger view of the links, which forces you to scroll down the page to reach certain links.
Note.pngNote:I don't think it's a problem because it's easier to identify links. Spending time on scrolling is much less than trying to find a certain link among a bunch of other links in a row.

--THE OWL (talk) 22:00, 3 November 2024 (PST)

New design is not needed. The current one works perfectly fine and I don't have to scroll to see all links. One thing from it that would be good to do is adding the links to individual game doc pages but not with such overly huge boxes --Nescius (talk) 07:12, 4 November 2024 (PST)
I'll try to do something about it later.
THE OWL (talk)

About the Brief Description

I added a simple description to make this SDK documentation similar to all the others. Also, I think it helps to find different versions of Source SDK faster.

I'm sure it's useful, and beginners to working with Source in general didn't get a brief description of the here and now before.

I'm leaving this topic here to explain the reason for adding the description and to provide a place to discuss this edit, if any.

--THE OWL (talk) 16:19, 13 May 2025 (PDT)