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{{Ongoing discussions}}{{discussion page}}__NEWSECTIONLINK__

== lang and multipage ==

Anybody know how to transition pages using {{tl|link=lang}} to {{tl|link=multipage}}? The amount of pages (especially quite important ones) using lang has really hampered my translating efforts. Are you supposed to move all the translated pages like Category:Modding:fr to Category:Modding/fr individually and mark all the old pages with deletion. I know there's some info on the multipage documentation page, but it's a bit unclear and I'd really rather not create some big mess. --[[Wisdurm]] ([[User talk:Wisdurm|talk]]) 20:15, 23 Dec 2023

Here's everything you need to do for normal pages (templates are handled seperately, they should ideally just be one template that uses {{tl2|autolang}})
1. Move the English page to [page name]/en

2. For all other languages, move them to be subpages of the base page (e.g. from Main Page:es to Main Page/es).

3. Assuming no pages link to the original language page, mark it for deletion. 

4. Replace all instances of {{tl2|lang}} on the subpages with {{tl2|langsp}}, and if the page should have a different title in said language, instead use {{tl2|langsp|title{{=}}[translation]}}. 

5. Remove any categories the subpages are in. 

6. Add {{tl2|MultiPage}} to the base page and place categories there as well. 

7. If {{tl2|this is a}} was on the English page, move it to the base page. It'll automatically translate based on the language.


So, if Main Page:es contained this:
{{Codeblock|<nowiki>{{lang|title=Display Title}}
Page Contents
[[Category:1]]</nowiki> }}

then Main Page/es should contain this (note the omission of the category):
{{Codeblock|<nowiki>{{langsp|title=Display Title}}
Page Contents</nowiki> }}

As for categories, the pages in the category (not specifically the ones in the content of the page, but rather what follows "{{int:category-article-count}}") should be converted to MultiPage, so that the category should contain no pages. After that, just do what you would do for regular pages. --[[Pee]] ([[User talk:Pee|talk]]) 21:09, 23 Dec 2023

== Sidebar translation ==

The possibility for translating links in the sidebar is now open, as seen at [[MediaWiki_talk:Sidebar]]. However many translations are still missing. I'm thinking we should probably put them all on some page where wiki moderators can get them from later.<br>I looked at all the users in [[:Category:Translators]], and it seems currently we could get (from just people on this wiki currently) translations for English, Chinese, Croatian, Finnish, Russian and Vietnamese. {{User|Amicdict}} states that they translate to Esperanto, however they haven't been online in a bit. There's also {{User|Fabi135}} who translates to German, {{User|JacobsDevelop}} who translates to Polish and {{User|PowiDLa}} who translates to Ukranian, but they haven't been online in even longer.


EDIT: I've made a page in my user space for this at [[User:Wisdurm/Sandbox/Translators' noticeboard]]. Feel free to add translations. --[[Wisdurm]] ([[User talk:Wisdurm|talk]]) 9:32, 15 Jun 2024

== Modern and Classic templates ==

I'm going to replace all instances of "Modern" and "Classic" templates such as {{tl2|ModernConfirm}} & {{tl2|ClassicConfirm}} with just {{tl2|Confirm}} using {{User|WisdomBot}}. Feel free to tell me if this is a horrible idea. Task should be done within the next 24 hours or so. --[[Wisdurm]] ([[User talk:Wisdurm|talk]]) 20:31, 16 Jun 2024
:The reason {{t|Confirm}} still directs to {{t|classicConfirm}} is because the modern variant is unable to do inline (like so {{confirm}}).<br/>— [[User:SirYodaJedi|SirYodaJedi]] ([[User_talk:SirYodaJedi|talk]]) 16:54, 19 June 2024 (PDT)

== Central location to discuss formatting changes ==

I think there is a need to have a central location to discuss formatting changes. Over the years people would tend to propose changes on the talk page of a page they wanted to change, ask for feedback, get no reply and then change things, only to receive push-back after the fact which resulted in arguments and/or edit wars. If there were an easily found page to put those discussions it could help avoid that kind of stuff in the future. Perhaps this page could be used for that, but this seems to be more for general discussion than formatting in particular. -[[User:Solokiller|Solokiller]] ([[User talk:Solokiller|talk]]) 07:06, 21 June 2024 (PDT)

:Yes, something like the (ignore the funny name) [[WP:Village pump|Village pump]] that Wikipedia has could certainly improve coordination. I used to not be involved in moderation and proposals really, and now (that I am) I'm sometimes at a loss where a particular note or proposal would be <u>noticeable</u> first of all, and usually it's the amount of feedback that plays a big role. 

:I didn't know you made this post hours before my last edit of the main page, for example, and I made it because I thought no one really cared and there'd be nowhere to ask... 

:Looking at the Valve navbox (bottom of main page), there is a section called "Discussion" split into "Static" and "Ongoing" and the latter is N/A... what's that for, I wonder...

:Actually, I don't even know what's the shortest route to ''this'' page. I found it through edits history by accident... (edit) I see, it's called "Main Discussion Page" in the navbar, but then the title of the page doesn't match. Fun.  [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 15:36, 21 June 2024 (PDT)

:: I could see a simple "Proposals" discussion page existing, although I agree that visibility would most likely be the biggest issue. Putting it in the Valve navbox would help, but I don't know how many people actually use or regularly come into contact with that, especially people who already know their way around the wiki.

:: That being said, I'm not sure there'd be any other way to make it more visible. Maybe it could be linked in notice templates? --[[User:Blixibon|Blixibon]] ([[User talk:Blixibon|talk]]) 23:09, 24 June 2024 (PDT)

::: There [https://web.archive.org/web/20130113223135/https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page used to be] a "Latest news" box on the main page once. While I would've liked for it to exist now, not that much activity is happening where new, truly news-worthy pages are being added (it could've housed something like "Tutorial on Important Thing was added", but many core tutorials have already been added. But you never know...), so maybe its space could be given to a "new discussions" section. Not like in the link, that space's taken by "Valve technology"... maybe in top right or left, that space is vacant now... [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 15:13, 25 June 2024 (PDT)

: I looked into how Wikipedia and a few other wikis handle this and experimented with a few potential solutions in [[User:Blixibon/Centralized community proposals]] which stem from the conversation here. One of the solutions is a dedicated Proposals page, but the others focus on making discussions more visible in general, which I've started to think is the root of this issue. While a Proposals page would help put proposals in one place, it would also be another talk page people would need to check on their own accord. Compared to a regular talk page, it might be more descriptive or eye-catching if you're browsing recent changes, but I'm skeptical of how much difference that would make in practice.

: I also wouldn't say the alternatives I'm proposing are necessarily immune to that, or that they are completely developed ideas. I'm not an expert on this subject, and it's hard to come up with a way to centralize or coordinate a community when the only definitive way to reach someone is through user talk pages. I'm curious to have more input on these and whether they seem viable. --[[User:Blixibon|Blixibon]] ([[User talk:Blixibon|talk]]) 11:10, 28 June 2024 (PDT)

:: I'm in favour of that idea and the general vibe of that mockup. The main page, while I've been strongly in favour of keeping it more 'historical', is also in a way detached from modern practicalities (up until very recently used to reference building AAA games with Source and still references building products with it when Valve effectively stopped licensing it. Anyway...); the community portal shown in that mockup is more about what people are going to be dealing with in modding, but doesn't have a good place on the main page. 

:: > 'Putting the "Community" in Valve Developer Community' panel:
::: Good for suggesting tasks, ironically I've recently come across *the* tasks page on VDC, now I can't find how I got to it the first time, it suggests a lot of things to do with articles
:: > 'Community resources' panel:
::: I never paid attention to this page - [[:Help:Contents]] - turns out it even links to other valuable wikis, and here I was wondering why they're not promoted somewhere... that part can be integrated into the hub
:: > 'Current ongoing discussions':
::: I assume it'd need to be both automated and moderated... maybe work as a sort of pin board for people to put their discussions there themselves but be rational about it? 
:: > 'Bringing your work to the community'
::: Can be a good opportunity not only to explain how to promote content, but what mistakes to avoid, why not write about your mod on VDC immediately, how to better use addons instead of mod pages on Moddb... likbez so to speak.

:: To summarise, I don't really see why a button leading to a community hub like that, once it's constructed, can't be placed on the main page replacing "New to the wiki" panel. It would be within the first screen on desktop and not that far to scroll to on mobile. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 16:29, 9 July 2024 (PDT)

== Hidden categories due to relying on templates... ==

There's a bunch of categories that encompass a lot of subjects but are set to be hidden, because they're 'supposed' to work by including navbox templates. (as I understand it).

One of them is [[:Category:Source games]]. However, it appears obviously too short for how much it should have. And if we go to the {{tl2|navbox}} template, it specifically warns against using navboxes excessively, so I wouldn't want to put an extra navbox/template to every game on Source in different series. Plus, ''which'' template is supposed to link to that category?

Another is [[:Category:Games]]. That one's not hidden, and is full of subcats, but a bunch are empty. But what template links to it? 

If it's confusing or it's a leftover from some unfinished partial redesign (some hidden categories, like [[:Category:iOS games]] and [[:Category:Linux games]] mention {{tl2|Software page}}, which has been vanquished now)), should these hidden/template-relying categories be reverted to not be hidden and not warn people to not add pages to them manually? 

Assuming that was done to not have both navbox and category appear at the bottom of the page... well, why not? Categories should be visible on all pages that pertain to them, navboxes shouldn't be used constantly - seems like that move wasn't necessary. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 13:47, 25 June 2024 (PDT)

: After some digging: is it the ''topicon'' (e. g. {{tl2|src topicon}}) template that's solely responsible for adding categories? Does it make any difference to use both it and manual category linking? [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 16:46, 25 June 2024 (PDT)
:: Topicon templates are for… adding icons at the top of the page. These also add to categories out of convenience.<br/>— [[User:SirYodaJedi|SirYodaJedi]] ([[User_talk:SirYodaJedi|talk]]) 16:53, 25 June 2024 (PDT)
::: Then what is supposed to add pages to those "automated" categories? [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 16:54, 25 June 2024 (PDT)
:::: Never mind. It appears that {{tl2|infotable}} has the switches for the engines which in turn assign these categories like [[:Category:Source games]]. I don't see why it has to be a hidden category, still. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 17:03, 25 June 2024 (PDT)

== can't load some pages ==

It seems these pages and maybe some more cannot be loaded [[Material_surface_properties]] , [[Material_surface_properties:ru]] , [[Es/Source]] , [[Zh/Source]]. Any clue what could be the issue ? [[User:Nescius|Nescius]] ([[User talk:Nescius|talk]]) 10:54, 12 July 2024 (PDT)

== Any Russian speakers among the new moderators? ==

Among the moderators elected earlier this year, does anyone speak Russian and can handle potential conflicts between Russian-speaking users (in particular, related to translation, as it's often impossible to relay the problem without the mediating side speaking it themselves)?

P. S. Can we also have a category for moderator users? [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 01:13, 16 July 2024 (PDT)