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| == Faceposer Revert ==
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| ([https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Faceposer%2Fen&type=revision&diff=358557&oldid=358532 this]) I completely forgot about distance-variant stereo for a second there lol. Thank you!! :D
| | * [[Special:Redirect/revision/409469|06:22, 19 June 2024]] |
| --[[User:AaronRules5|AaronRules5]] ([[User talk:AaronRules5|talk]]) 04:47, 5 December 2023 (PST)
| | * [[Special:Redirect/revision/487714|04:55, 06 Sep 2025]] |
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| == Don't start a new war ==
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| [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]]}}
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| As I said earlier, what you returned was added by community quite recently. The original page contains only a few links, so this thought of yours is strange. --[[THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 18:10, 30 Apr 2024
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| {{u|THE OWL}} and {{u|Max34}} have done more on this wiki than the rest of us, so let them continue their work. In fact, {{u|THE OWL}} created this page. I believe there is no point in trying to impose your own rules. Perhaps the new design is ambiguous, but it definitely can be improved, and trying to force your own interpretation is wrong and one-sided. Since I am against this, I am in favor of a new design from these editors. I've reverted your changes, and I hope you don't mind. --[[NOUG4AT]] ([[User talk:NOUG4AT|talk]]) 18:31, 30 Apr 2024
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| Why are so many of you so supportive of Valve? They have openly abandoned this wiki (outdated mediawiki base...); if it weren't for the community, this wiki would have turned into trash a long time ago. I don't want to say anything, but Valve doesn't even initiate the banal issuance of administrator rights for active members. We should appreciate those enthusiasts who do this. They do it out of their own time and effort to improve the wiki. It's not right to dismiss their contributions just because "I THINK THIS IS TERRIBLE." It also seems two-faced that you're reverting to the community version when you could just revert to the very first edit. When did that first appear? --[[NOUG4AT]] ([[User talk:NOUG4AT|talk]]) 18:41, 30 Apr 2024
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| :The new main page is not up to the standards. It's poorly aligned, it leaves a lot of unused space, and it's barely functional on the mobile.
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| :Moreover, it does not provide as good and quick navigation to the overall categories (a bunch of un-labeled icons are not it).
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| :The old page is something we modders have grown used to after more than a decade. We don't want "cool edits I made in 50 minutes because I think it looks cooler".
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| :Support of Valve has nothing to do with it. It's about function over form. The original page, which I again restored, is FUNCTIONAL and that is key. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 13:51, 30 April 2024 (PDT)
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| : ''It also seems two-faced that you're reverting to the community version when you could just revert to the very first edit. When did that first appear?'' - and what does that even mean? Is this because I restored it to the last version before the big change? Sure, it's not technically the very first one, but it was an incremental change of the old design that was there for years and was not confusing. It was already completely adequate. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 13:59, 30 April 2024 (PDT)
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| :: At the very least, if you want to make a new main page, make it in your personal page space first! Iron out the quirks, get feedback. Lots of feedback, because this will affect a lot of modders. Make it all work right, make it useful. I'm not stonewalling change as a concept, I'm against what I saw today, what I reverted. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 14:07, 30 April 2024 (PDT)
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| :Absolutely no one asked for this, the design is terrible and half-baked. And recent "community updates" have been turning articles into visual colorful trash for a while now. [[User:A. Shift|A. Shift]] ([[User talk:A. Shift|talk]]) 13:57, 30 April 2024 (PDT)
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| I hadn't created an account earlier for this very reason, but I felt compelled to do so now. Whatever '''you''' think is nescessary for the wiki needn't be what is actually needed. The main page has remained the same for years, and it should remain as such for years to come. Please cease your edits. --[[Jancias]] ([[User talk:Jancias|talk]]) 21:15, 30 Apr 2024
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| : The current layout stays faithful to the layout we've had since 2020, which isn't too different from the layout from 2005. I really don't think it should be totally revamped, because it is functional and very clearly laid out. It's modified, certainly, but the modifications are non-intrusive and logical. The links to each documentation hub should remain as the large things they currently are; they grab the eye, and make it obvious where to go next.<br/>— [[User:SirYodaJedi|SirYodaJedi]] ([[User_talk:SirYodaJedi|talk]]) 14:43, 30 April 2024 (PDT)
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| I agree that I updated this page too early (I didn’t plan to save it now, but I no longer had time for the old design), but what you don’t understand is that some habits will have to change soon (don't take it too negatively, just wait a little). A new user, even now, could hardly find the information necessary for a good start, and when this wiki did not have the so-called visual trash, the user went crazy trying to understand how and what works in this engine, wiki, etc. (I was also one of these users, which prompted me to become the editor of this wiki, because this wiki was crap that was impossible to use)
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| For users who have been here for a long time, there are and will be small pins on the main page, which are the same links as before, just now they are not so large so that new users do not get confused and can immediately go to any game and any tool by reading clear descriptions and clicking on clear buttons (this will be in the future).
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| You haven't seen what's going to happen in the future, so I can understand the negative reaction.
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| : If anything, right now the wiki is harder to read than before (and I've been using it for a long time), because there's too much colourful clutter in categories and in pages. I'm talking about articles such as [[Cubemaps]]. It's way too unfocused. A lot of plaques (some nested), all those folder icons (truly don't understand the need for them, or icon-plaques for shaders; all the engine branches are bad enough). There's too much information AND the presentation is focused on something other than ease of use. It's been bugging me since before I became an editor. I want it all gone, but I know I can't defeat it alone.
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| : I'm not sure who here is so bored with the wiki that they invent more and more coloured labels, but it's throwing off me and quite a few other modders I know, veteran modders, who need these articles to find information they're specifically looking for.
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| : How are you going to make it so 'long-time users will have small pins on the main page'? Is it going to be an opt-in? Do you mean it that they'll just ''be'' there for those users ''and'' for everyone else? What's wrong with the current main page? What's bad about it, exactly?
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| : If you don't have enough time on your hands (according to your profile), then, frankly, maybe leave it alone for now. And again, I'll stress this, make a prototype in the sandbox, don't experiment on the main page itself. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 07:43, 2 May 2024 (PDT) --[[THE OWL]] ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 7:01, 1 May 2024
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| == Thanks ==
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| Thanks for removing the other engines section on {{tl2|Leveleditors}}. I wanted to delete it today. --[[Mr. SystemError]] ([[User talk:Mr. SystemError|talk]]) 17:45, 17 Jun 2024
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| == I really should stop ==
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| In general, my plan for the future agrees with your opinion and not only yours. Right now, people are finally tired of our countless experiments, which I can't even fix right now because I'm not at home. I guess I should apologize for all of this, but I should also say that what we have now could have been fixed a long time ago if I were at home.
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| And so, getting to the point. In our recent discussion about the state of the wiki, I've repeatedly asked for examples of the problems we're experiencing, so please can you send me the pages you think are the most wrong, and at least briefly tell me why you think so?
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| As soon as I can, I will try to improve the situation by asking one of the people who have participated in one way or another in the discussion of the current state of the wiki. Right now I just want to leave the wiki for good, but I can't leave it the way it is now.
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| Forget what I said about continuing to go my own way. I'm tired of this wiki and now I just want to make it work properly without all the unnecessary stuff and with easy visual updates.
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| --[[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] 13:25, 18 Jun 2024 (UTC)
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| Oh, do you mind if I ask you something from time to time? I will ask others these questions too, but so far you are the most active of all the frustrated users.
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| --[[User:THE OWL]] 13:33, 18 Jun 2024 (UTC)
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| :I don't want you and your friends to be fixing these things. I want things to go back the way they were before, when things were done manually on pages, without excessive templatism and string lookups and all this techbro solutions. I would've bought this a few months ago, but I don't have much faith in your proposal of me cherry picking the bad pages, not after I've seen your attitude and way of work. This isn't about pleasing a selected user on their selected pages. It's about pushing back what shouldn't have become a temporary standard in the first place.
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| :If you really mean it about undoing the bad work, then you don't need my examples to start undoing the unwieldy templates like Template:Software, or getting rid of Multipage - it literally starts on the first page.
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| :If you don't really mean it, and just want to patch a few bad spots so people like me get a bit quieter, well, that's not meant to be.
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| :I'd much rather spend time drafting up a guideline set or composing game/soft/tool pages without the Software template in them, than aiding you. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 08:56, 18 June 2024 (PDT)
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| :: Okay, I get it. Don't worry, I was talking about simplifying the wiki and getting rid of unnecessary templating.
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| --[[User:THE OWL|THE OWL]] 16:43, 18 Jun 2024 (UTC) | |
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| == About the Softwarepage template... ==
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| So Iam not going to lie personally I don't like it, as sometimes it breaks for no reason, but if you want to remove it like half of the wiki is going down with it even if you remove it with bots, information would still be lost, so it
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| would be needed to be done manually. -[[User:Toligon|Toligon]] ([[User talk:Toligon|talk]]) 02:08, 19 June 2024 (PDT)
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