View source for Template talk:Sdktools

{{Discussion page}}

This is much more handy for to find information. --Kwp17pitts ([[User talk:Kwp17pitts|talk]]) 22:11, 17 Jan 2012

== H++ ==

Any chance someone could add {{hammerpp|4}} to the list of map editors? The template is way too confusing for me to edit. --9yz ([[User talk:9yz|talk]]) 20:56, 23 Jul 2022

== Delete as problematic ==

Smaller See also sections are far better than big navboxes.

Don't spam completely irrelevant tools everywhere... --Lxm6 ([[User talk:Lxm6|talk]]) 17:37, 8 Apr 2023

{{tl|Software page}} will solve this problem by adding category navigation, similar to Steam. For now, just be patient, because at the moment this is the only good way to find other useful (or not) tools. --THE OWL ([[User talk:THE OWL|talk]]) 19:31, 8 Apr 2023

== Colour Coding Problem ==

The colour coding in this category (first and foremost the third party subcategory) is '''really''' overdone. 

If you think it makes things easier to read and navigate - no, it doesn't. 

If it's meant for quick-glance recognition and association - nope, it doesn't work. 

There's too many colours, some of them are dark on dark background, others obviously jump out more, but I don't see a pattern for it (like, this tool is bright because it's better than all paler ones). 

Numerous icons don't really matter (Entspy's is just Java icon? Sparc is some rectangle? Several of them just become pixely blobs? Several more just do fine without an icon?)

'''Suggestion''': Keeping them as simple links next to icons is both okay and quite enough.

P. S. This is a part of an ongoing trend on this wiki that bothers me as a user more and more. The leaning into "more icons", "more colours", "more banners", it makes all the text more jumpy before the eyes and less legible, speaking as someone with vision disability.
To be honest, I agree with you, but I myself have recently become too interested in this, creating many of templates for CMD components. I think all this can be simplified (deleted) and the really useless templates removed.
I also agree that some icons don't really make sense, for example adding unofficial icons (for Java programs) is a rather strange solution, unnecessary.
me like cause it look pretty --TF2CutContent ([[User talk:TF2CutContent|talk]]) 15:30, 5 Dec 2023
Its confusing! So many icon templates with a munch of different colors makes everything hard to read. Icon templates should be only for games or important tools like GCFscape, not random texture program #793 --Equalizer5118 ([[User talk:Equalizer5118|talk]]) 17:31, 5 Dec 2023 --NOUG4AT ([[User talk:NOUG4AT|talk]]) 12:57, 5 Dec 2023 --Cvoxalury ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 11:56, 5 Dec 2023

== Vandalism by [[User:HaammerEditoor]] ==

Once again, it's most likely [[User:HammerEditor]] is back (or could by anybody else), there was a huge vandalism that cause this pages to not load at all (Error 500 on Chrome or blank page in Firefox), other pages can be easily reverted back through, Valve and/or wiki admins needs to do something about this. --Kr0tchet ([[User talk:Kr0tchet|talk]]) 0:46, 25 Mar 2024


<small>(using [[Template:Message]])</small>&nbsp;Agree!&nbsp;--[[User:NOUG4AT|NOUG4AT]] ([[User talk:NOUG4AT|talk]]) 4:41, 25 Mar 2024 (UTC)

== Reason for 4.1->2 ==

This has been a topic of discussion for a while now. People complained that the colorful software templates were too distracting and visually obnoxious, and nothing was getting done. So I got something done. It was way too loud on the eyes. If you disagree, feel free to say so here. I would like to know your inputs.
: Remove all the icons as well. Revert the official SDK tools to no-colours, no-icons as well. P. S. Funny enough, I was exactly in the process of bringing the Official Tools template to its plain text old look, only in a more radical manner, when I noticed your edit (I still have the edit tab open). So something was getting done indeed... [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 14:00, 17 June 2024 (PDT)
: Personally I think it's utter nightmare the way it's organised, every little point being its own micro-template, using strings instead of just text, it's a complete clustermess. At least with strings for labels I sort of understand - that it's done for languages, right? - but then I'd think you may as well instead have it like template/ru, template/de, template/sp etc. instead of trying to make it fetch things from strings. But why every link to a tool needs to be some convoluted module, why not simply a wiki link? IT JUST WORKS. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 14:04, 17 June 2024 (PDT)

::When I notice a grammatical error on a page I click the edit tab, then i realise i have to click the button on the multipage template, see the template, look it up on the search bar, edit it, see the strings being used, look that page up, edit it and try to find the needed string, after I edited the string I have to go back to the page I was on and click the purge button om the multipage. I know this discussion is about the software template and sdk navbox, but it applies too. --<span style="font-family:TF2 Build;">[[User:Mr._SystemError|Mr. System Error]]<sup>([[User_talk:Mr._SystemError|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Mr._SystemError|C]])</sup></span> 14:19, 17 June 2024 (PDT)

:::And of course it prevents meaningful preview of edits. Plus... can looking up strings really be as instantaneous as just 'built-in' text on the page? A lot of complaints was about speed and it's not just strings but icons too, kilobytes add up. [[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 14:41, 17 June 2024 (PDT) --Equalizer5118 ([[User talk:Equalizer5118|talk]]) 20:54, 17 Jun 2024

I was thinking it was fine with 4, but 2 looks a lot better because it isn't looking confetti. --Mr. SystemError ([[User talk:Mr. SystemError|talk]]) 20:59, 17 Jun 2024


<small>(using [[Template:Message]])</small>&nbsp;I'm also alright with getting rid of the icons, but some users may have some issues with that. If everyone else is alright with I'd be more than happy.&nbsp;--[[User:Equalizer5118|Equalizer5118]] ([[User talk:Equalizer5118|talk]]) 21:36, 17 Jun 2024 (UTC)

I have decided to remove the icons as well on the third party. The icons look out of place, and I agree with the time it takes to load. Especially on bad wifi, like where I am now (currently on vacation), it takes a while to load. If anybody objects to this, please say so here. -[[User:Equalizer5118|Equalizer]] ([[User talk:Equalizer5118|talk]]) 17:21, 17 June 2024 (PDT)

Well I agree that removing the icons was a good idea, as I was the one why turned into a christmas tree, which now looking back wasn't a great idea. -[[User:Toligon|Toligon]] ([[User talk:Toligon|talk]]) 23:19, 17 June 2024 (PDT)

== Classifying as tools ==

Imo the ''tools'' template should be for software created ''as tools for modding''. Programs that exist outside this scope, like industry-grade tools and wide-application programs, don't fit in the same class.

The template should help navigate through these ''specific'' tools which were always the key factor in conquering the modscape, while using mainstream tools is of course necessary, but outclasses the template.

So I think the template should exclude these:

*'''Model Tools''' - [[3Dcoat]], [[3ds Max]], [[Blender]], [[Cinema 4D]], [[Lightwave]], [[Maya]], [[MilkShape 3D]], [[Modo]], [[Zbrush]]
*'''Texture Tools''' - [[Adobe Photoshop]], [[GIMP]], [[Paint.NET]], [[Materialize]], [[Terragen]]

Not only because of like I said, they're not ''tools for modding'' as much, but because most of them are still referred to by way of referencing plugins for them, like VTF plugin or MESA.

A case can be made for some of them like MilkShape or Materialize or Terragen, I can be fine with that. While MilkShape for example is not just for HL modding, it's historically just neat and important and not widespread otherwise (kind of abandonware, isn't it?), not unlike Photoshop or Maya, so giving it a slot isn't big deal even if it bends the classification a bit. 

Also it hit me that these don't include programming tools at all, but if it did, it clearly doesn't need to link to Visual Studio itself for example. 

[[User:Cvoxalury|Cvoxalury]] ([[User talk:Cvoxalury|talk]]) 03:27, 18 June 2024 (PDT)