Talk:Shader

Alright, I've merged this with the pixel and vertex shader pages, and re-written the descriptions to sound a little better. They're still short, and theres probably some more detail that can go into them, but I don't write very well at midnight ;) Ging, if you're planning to add some more stuff, go ahead, IMO this article could be a fair bit more detailed. Wraiyth 06:52, 27 Jul 2006 (PDT)

I'll have a think about where to go into more detail - examples of usage might be useful I suppose (especially for postprocess). --Ging 10:14, 27 Jul 2006 (PDT)

I'm fearful of going into too much detail and just going over what's already available in Shader_Authoring - though I think that Shader Authoring is my next target for cleaning up.Ging 20:40, 27 Jul 2006 (PDT)

I've tried to ignore that article for as long as possible :P Wraiyth 22:44, 27 Jul 2006 (PDT)

I've done a fairly major re-write of this section to generally make it look a bit nicer and read better - as such I've removed the pov / stub templates too, feel free to pop the stub back in if you think more info is required (as it is, some work could be done to consolidate the shader information - I'm happy to do so if others agree) --Ging 07:20, 25 Jul 2006 (PDT)

Seems a fair bit better than the old one. I'm suggesting that we merge Vertex Shader and Pixel Shader with this page too. Wraiyth 02:44, 26 Jul 2006 (PDT)

Does anyone know of any worthwhile books or online resouces on shader concepts and coding, especially for newcomers? (Other than the Microsoft docs, which seem to be down at the moment of this) --Tidalwv 15:26, 14 Dec 2005 (PST)

"I'm currently working on material shaders to perform dynamic lighting and dynamic reflections and will update the page as I find out more info." - thats all in first person, shouldn't it be in third to conform to wiki standards? or even link to the users workspace? --Pongles 00:52, 18 Apr 2006 (PDT)

It was added by GhDrivin and I haven't seen him around since he did that article... Theres no resource for it and its been sitting there for a while, so I suggest it should just be removed. Wraiyth 02:48, 18 Jul 2006 (PDT)

Cleanup!

"A shader is a program that runs on the graphics hardware (GPU) rather than the CPU." This has to be the most confusing line I've ever read on this wiki. You're saying that a shader is any executable that, when run, installs itself into the memory of a GPU, and that the Valve Materials (.vmts) are full of little programs. --Andreasen 06:01, 30 Aug 2007 (PDT)

I am confused as much as you are.--Gear 07:45, 30 Aug 2007 (PDT)

This article is in desperate need of a cleanup. I just came here looking for a simple explanation to what a "shader" is, and get a poorly written, out of context, confused, in-depth, never ending article about how there's three sub-versions of Shader Model 2.0, just if the possibility arises that you'd want to write a shader for the only graphics card that uses one of its versions. We need to move the sections that Wraiyth apparently moved here back to where they came from, and just link to them from here instead. This article... I want to scream. I want to eat things. Blueberry muffins. --Andreasen 21:04, 30 Aug 2007 (PDT)

"A shader is a program that runs on the graphics hardware (GPU) rather than the CPU." Actually, this line was quite accurate. It looks like it even brought you to the overall correct conclusion (.vmts are full of little programs, which on a high level, is correct). Remember, this article was targeted at programmers. Shader development is an advanced topic, even for programmers. Perhaps a shorter, higher-level glossary is what is needed instead that can provide links to more in-depth content. Non-programmers never have to consider shaders other than to pick the correct one for their .vmt (and it will be either LightmappedGeneric or VertixLitGeneric the vast majority of the time anyway). --JeffLane 21:43, 30 Aug 2007 (PDT)

Yes, after reading this again, the first two paragraphs should become the bulk of this article as a proper glossary article, and the rest should be moved and serve as an introduction to Shader Authoring. Then commonly used shaders could be added to this page that would be useful to content producers, as well as explaining the relationship between shaders and .vmt files. --JeffLane 21:52, 30 Aug 2007 (PDT)

Shader Authoring really needs a cleanup first, theres no point in trying to merge stuff from here, into there, without that article getting changed, because its bloody terrible. Andreasen, that line was perfectly correct. Shaders are basically programs that are executed on a GPU to modify the output of it. The main change I made to this article was to merge in Pixel Shader and Vertex Shader, because those two articles were pretty much two lines distinguishing what they were. That change is a fairly logical one, theres no point explaining shaders without the different types. The samples were done by Ging. And on a sidenote, can you please stop re-adding the link to my nVidia Samples tute? The freesuperhost site its linked to is clearly down (in fact it re-directs to my new site), and the new site doesn't have that tutorial on there.

Anyway for the record, I disagree with Jeff. I think Shader Authoring should remain as an article on how to create Shaders with Source. The other shader stuff that he's proposed to move from here is fairly general and serves as a nice introduction to actual shader development, not how it works with Source. That article would end up as convoluted and messy as Andreasen claims this one is. Wraiyth 05:26, 31 Aug 2007 (PDT)

Oh, I thought shaders were just subroutines of the engine program, but reading about shader models, I guess I was wrong. However, when it comes to Valve Materials, a "program", for me, is more than just one instruction (per shader). I consider where these instructions are passed, to be the actual shader program.

Wraiyth, I actually double checked that link to make sure that it stayed gone, and must have missed it. The reason I accidentally re-added it was that we edited this article at the same time, and your edit got lost. Sorry. --Andreasen 07:51, 31 Aug 2007 (PDT)

Everything from the Vertex Shaders section and below is an introduction shader development/authoring in Source. I was not suggesting that content be pasted into Shader Authoring without any further work on those articles, simply that it belongs there more than here. Right now, there's a link to Shader Authoring in one of the first sections, and then in the introduction on Shader Authoring, it actually links back to here. --JeffLane 08:44, 31 Aug 2007 (PDT)

Yeah I agree with that, your original comment just made it sound like almost everything should be moved over Wraiyth 15:22, 31 Aug 2007 (PDT)