Talk:3D model

Scope of Article

What is the intention of this article? To me it seems like an introduction to the use of models in Level Design with some scraps of vague or inaccurate technical facticles of dubious usefulness. Wouldn't Technical information about the structure of a model would be better placed in a dedicated article such as Anatomy of a Model or MDL? --Beeswax 10:56, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

This is a generic definition page, which ideally tells the reader what the subject is, gives a brief overview of its uses, and finally leads to other pages with more specific information.

Incidentally, it made no mention of Hammer until you added that stuff in the other day. Before then it was purely a definition. --TomEdwards 10:59, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

I disagree. It is currently too vague and disorganised to be useful as a definition. --Beeswax 11:12, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

Vague in what sense? Remember that this is aimed at people who have never even heard the term before. --TomEdwards 11:25, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

Technical information should indeed go in MDL, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for a high-level description of what separates a model from, say, a brush here. --TomEdwards 11:02, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

Worldmodels

Why do you say that models are not part of the Worldspawn entity? What use is that statement? Models are not part of loads of entites, including Brushes. I believe you are misusing the term "world". Models are world objects - they are visible, collidable, interactable, etc they are not part of the HUD. I believe waht you mean is that Worldmodels are distinct from Brushes because as far as Level Editing with Hammer is concerned, they are precompiled and uneditable. They can only appear in game by via an entity... but I'm just repeating my contribution that you deleted ... --Beeswax 11:12, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

Yeah, I can see that's a point of confusion now. I'm not happy with distinguishing between the two based on how they are created, though, since that isn't why they are different. Perhaps one day Valve will add model editing to Hammer - but they'd still be models and brushes, even if it was all compiled at the same time. :-p

Maybe the link should read "that isn't part of the underlying brush geometry". I'll make that change now as it's a definite improvement, but if you've got a better suggestion... --TomEdwards 11:25, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

How about " World objects can be either Models or Brushes. Models are ..." --Beeswax 12:32, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

In Hammer: In my ignorance of the really technical facts about different types of vertex geometry (which should probably go in MDL or an even more in depth 'technical' article), it seems to me that the most useful distinction between models and brushes is to help people deciding when and how to use them. AFAIK, models and brushes only 'behave' differently in Hammer? Note: I also changed this article category from "Modeling" (that misspelling bugs me every time I see it!) to "Level Design" to reflect that viewpoint. I honestly can't think of any other brush/model distinction that could be relevant in the context where the term "model" is used. --Beeswax 12:32, 6 Apr 2008 (PDT)

Definitions: Essentialist definitions are of little practical (and debatable logical[1]) value. A useful definition is one that distinguishes this concept from similar concepts. ie:

• "a model is collection of vertex geometry, surface textures, predefined animated sequences, vphysics attributes, creativity, ingenuity, humour, fun, etc etc"

doesn't really answer any practical question such as

• "what do I need to know about models when I'm playing HL2?" (answer: nothing, it's not a significant concept in gameplay decisions.),
• "what do I need to know about models when I making a new Level for HL2?" (answer: diff between brush & model.)
• "what do I need to know about models when I'm making one for use in my mod/map?" (answer:lots - see Model Creation Overview, Anatomy of a Model, etc.).
• "what do I need to know about models when I'm designing an FPS Game Engine?" (answer: well, the boffins at Valve used a mixture of cartesian and spline geometry because ... etc).