View source for Talk:Mistake Of Pythagoras

{{spoiler2}}

==Initial Reactions==
A few months ago, I was wondering what this guy was up to - I hugely enjoyed his Half-Life stuff, and was really disappointed not to see any apparent HL2 work on his website. Well, it seems I was wrong. I'm still downloading right now, but I'm grinning already. Thanks for the news! &mdash;'''<font color="#10c010">Cargo Cult</font>''' <sub>([[User:Cargo Cult|info]], [[User talk:Cargo Cult|talk]])</sub> 09:19, 22 Dec 2005 (PST)

: Played it now - that was rather awesome. Useful factoids: ''don't make me look at you!'', ''a<sup>2</sup> + b<sup>2</sup> = c<sup>2</sup>'', and if you're stuck, ''it's a puzzle''. To be solved. It really got my brain thoroughly exercised! (Oh, and the ending's rather sad...) &mdash;'''<font color="#10c010">Cargo Cult</font>''' <sub>([[User:Cargo Cult|info]], [[User talk:Cargo Cult|talk]])</sub> 15:51, 22 Dec 2005 (PST)

::I was wondering the same thing, "Is Koumei Satou making some new maps for HL2? But he seems very busy, and hasn't said a word about it," until 2 weeks ago. Then he invited a few people(including me) for playtesting all of sudden. It was already awesome, and I was amazed to learn it's all done with entities. I'm not still sure how he did it while he claims he only used the basics. It's great to see its global launch. P.S. Glad to see you enjoyed it:) And ''useful'' factoroids, indeed. -[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 17:44, 22 Dec 2005 (PST)

:::What a fun mod! I can't believe the only custom coding in this mod is for unlocking the chapters; in fact, it makes me a little bit skeptical about it. Anyways, kudos to KS! -- [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 06:19, 23 Dec 2005 (PST)

::::If you are really skeptical, do away with bin directory and try playing it. When I got it for playtesting, it was without bin directory. I only did quick [[Unlocking chapters in your mod]] edit to the HL2SP SDK code, compiled and handed him that .dlls. Again, it's amazing to learn how powerful entity system really is. P.S. KS is not a member of this wiki yet, but he sees this page-[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 06:33, 23 Dec 2005 (PST)

:::::Brilliant fun. I didn't know the Source engine was capable of ''half'' the things shown in this mod.--[[User:Tequila|Tequila]] 14:44, 23 Dec 2005 (PST)

:::::: (semi-spoiler alert) Just played this. Pretty fun, and an original concept too. I also liked the "proof" at the end - but I didn't really know how to interpret the ending. Are the Combine mourning the death of the "Pythagoreans" or what? Is it like King Kong, where - gasp - we're the monsters instead?! :) --'''[[User:Campaignjunkie|Campaignjunkie]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Campaignjunkie|talk]])</sup> 21:05, 23 Dec 2005 (PST)

::::::: '''BIG SPOILERS!''' I got the impression that man had been messing with the universe, and thus inadvertently broke Pythagoras' theorem. Cue numerals falling from the skies, dark machines invading our world, horrible monsters infesting the locals, and mankind's great Citadel slowly being subverted with huge blocks of new machinery. So, you travel into this abstract mathematical world, to defeat the dark machines and let the light machines rise again. As a final gesture of thanks at the end, one of the few surviving light machines travels to our world - only for we monsters to ''murder'' it... :-( &mdash;'''<font color="#10c010">Cargo Cult</font>''' <sub>([[User:Cargo Cult|info]], [[User talk:Cargo Cult|talk]])</sub> 07:17, 24 Dec 2005 (PST)

:::::::: That's how I interpreted it, yeah. After all, the white machines do nothing but aid you, and look how they're repayed! --[[User:Tequila|Tequila]] 11:27, 24 Dec 2005 (PST)

::::::::: Ha, I guess I'm one of the monsters then - I didn't even discern a difference between the light and the dark machines. They're all damn triangles to me! Kill kill kill! --'''[[User:Campaignjunkie|Campaignjunkie]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Campaignjunkie|talk]])</sup> 12:08, 24 Dec 2005 (PST)

Nice use of <code>!picker</code>&mdash;'''[[User:Ts2do|ts2do]]'''&nbsp;<sup>([[User talk:Ts2do|Talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[mailto:tsdodo@gmail.com @])</sup> 20:32, 24 Dec 2005 (PST)
:Ts2do - what's <code>!picker</code>?  Ah never mind, see [[Ent_fire]] docs. --[[User:Holtt|Holtt]]

Where can I find a walkthrough? --[[User:Alph Tech STUART|Alph Tech STUART]] 20:42, 25 Dec 2005 (PST)

it's really not that difficult&mdash;'''[[User:Ts2do|ts2do]]'''&nbsp;<sup>([[User talk:Ts2do|Talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[mailto:tsdodo@gmail.com @])</sup> 21:29, 25 Dec 2005 (PST)

:I might write brief hints document in the future. Right now I think ModDb comments are helpful when you get stuck. -[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 00:24, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)

:Are you stuck at the house? -- [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 01:05, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)
*Just much fun, well done!--[[User:RP|RP]] 07:24, 1 Jan 2006 (PST)

[[File:Ks mop4.jpg|thumb|left]]
Wonderful!  The music, the effects, the whole "mystery" were quite beautiful to play.  I almost regretted that I had to have a gun.

I think maybe my favorite room visually was this "launching bay".  The sun streaming in and the combination of older looking technology and new - sort of steam punk.

Good job!
--[[User:Holtt|Holtt]]
<br style="clear:both;"><!-- Text after this HTML code will start below the above image, instead of wrapping around it. -->

WOW. I believe that is the best mod for half life 2 that I have ever played. It was beautiful. Yes I said Beautiful. WOW. I want to say more but I'm speechless.[[User:Cubedude|Cubedude]] 16:43, 7 Feb 2006 (PST)

The author makes numerous citations of the French neoclassical architect Claude Nicholas Ledoux.  Several of the buildings are direct recreations of his drawings!  I thought this was pretty fantastic.--[[User:Lackey|Lackey]] 09:29, 24 Mar 2007 (PDT)

==Translation help wanted==
Someone has added a critics to the article - should this be moved to discussion? --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 16:12, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

:I think it's better moved to here. Also, if you English speaking people could help us to have better translations for these parts, please let us know. We'd like to update the text. --[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 17:52, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

(moved from article page)
[[user:Cptbuck|Cptbuck]]: "The mod has been met with quite a bit of frustration in the english speaking mod community due to bad translations and some unclear mission objectives."

why remove it? even the note about the the release on fallout says that its japanese roots make it confusing. Its a page about the mod correct? i dunno maybe i misunderstand the point of the page. Fact is i couldnt even get past the first level lmao, no indication of where to go! lol. --[[User:Cptbuck|Cptbuck]] 23:25, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

:Because this is the talk page(discussion) for it, the main article for general information. See [[MINERVA]] and [[Talk:MINERVA]] for example. The first level...if you are crashed by the triangle, look for the valve...and what does the sign below it say? --[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 23:31, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)


This is areally nice game, and a the beginning, you step outside and saw 'wow, thats nice. now what?' so my question is- what do u do at the beginning? I got the buggie, but then what? SO CONFUSING- rossismyname@hotmail.com is my email for all u nice people

==Secrets==
Can someone steer me in the right direction about the meaning of the Blue Cat hint? '''[Edited: [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 15:07, 1 Jan 2006 (PST)]''' Is it an easter egg on KS' site? -- [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 05:34, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)

:Numbers... I'm still on my way to find them myself, but I can think of only one place(in the map) that possibly accepts that kind of number inputs. Don't know how, though. -[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 08:51, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)

:To Sodabus, here is a note from KS(translated by me). "Wow, you've made it there! Great! But this secret puzzle is really a hard one. Well, these hints you found are not enough to figure it out. You have still another hint to find. It would show you the way...possibly." -[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 22:57, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)

::Two hints are enough to solve the puzzle.  Looks like KS wrote to you when you had found only one hint, so you had one more to go. Now that I've unlocked the secret (with assurance from somebody who told me that I was on the right track), I still don't know what those clipped numbers below the gravity gun crosshairs are for.  The apparent value changes over time, but when I reload a save game, the value is the same for all save games. --[[User:Lachnummer|Lachnummer]] 14:12, 11 Jun 2007 (PDT)

::I found the Yellow Dog hint. It's funny that the first time I played this, I kept the tiny plus sign around and rode up the giant zero. After I got to the next map, I thought to myself, ''"Why did I hold on to that little plus sign?"''

::Anyways, the Yellow Dog hint has '''[Edited: [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 15:07, 1 Jan 2006 (PST)]'''. I think that the two hints are related to the room where the theorem is repaired, as there's '''[Edited: [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 15:07, 1 Jan 2006 (PST)]'''. That, and there's a square area on the roof that's off-colored to its surroundings. After that... I'm lost. Help, anyone? -- [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 14:44, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

:::You almost got it. Combine these hints... '''[Edited: [[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 18:37, 1 Jan 2006 (PST)]'''Note it doesn't tell you that you are doing right until you complete the puzzle.(This frustrated me a bit) --[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 18:01, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

::::I finally got it! The results are... interesting, especially that "alternate situation" and the "unincluded character". It looks like the player is going for a little ride, ''if you catch my drift''. -- [[User:Sodabus|Sodabus]] 03:19, 2 Jan 2006 (PST)

:::::Some of the ''little'' props are... disturbing.  I wonder what those were about. --[[User:Lachnummer|Lachnummer]] 14:12, 11 Jun 2007 (PDT)

I don't know what in the world you're talking about...I beat it withotu a problem...and I don't remember any of this you're saying&mdash;'''[[User:Ts2do|ts2do]]'''&nbsp;<sup>([[User talk:Ts2do|Talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[mailto:tsdodo@gmail.com @])</sup> 23:23, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

:I didn't have no idea either when I found Sodabus's first post in this section. They are called secrets, because they are. --[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 23:50, 31 Dec 2005 (PST)

Can someone give me a hint where to find the blue cat hint? Like in which chapter and if it's before or after the yellow dog hint. --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 15:33, 1 Jan 2006 (PST)

:To answer my own question, according to the forums it's hidden in the 1st chapter. --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 03:43, 2 Jan 2006 (PST)

Hm, Sodabus, can you give any hints on the room at the end?  I have both hints (i'm looking for the last secret :D).  I know its there somewhere.  Thanks. [Also, I'm not sure whether I should be editing this page to post, i'm not sure and the wiki help section isn't very detailed. [[User:Couch|Couch]]

This is kind of an odd place to look for help, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot about this mod on the internet. I've got both these hints, and I'm in the last room. I think I pretty much have this thing figured out only...what in the world am I supposed to *do* with these giant numbers now that I have them? Since there's supposedly no indication that I'm doing whatever it is right, I'm pretty lost here. :\  --[[User:Some nub]]

:In return for having no indication what to do and if it's right, it is very simple. It doesn't matter much, if at all, '''what''' you do with these numbers. The most important thing is the '''correct order''' (which the two secret hints should help you with). &mdash;[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 06:03, 16 Feb 2006 (PST)

::Come to think of it, the order might not even be important. --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 04:57, 2 Mar 2006 (PST)

:::The order given by the hints unlocks the secret.  I tried one different order, and that did not unlock the secret for me.  So it looks like the order ''does'' matter.  Indeed it is simple when you manage to avoid assumptions such as "one of the blues must be cyan".  It isn't, blue is blue, period. --[[User:Lachnummer|Lachnummer]] 14:12, 11 Jun 2007 (PDT)

Can someone help me perhaps?  I'm at the same part as 'Some nub.'  I'm trying to use the hints with the numbers and colours, but I can't get the numbers to stay in one place; they fly back to where they're from.  Thanks. [[User:Couch|Couch]]

:That's ok, the numbers are meant to do this. --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 04:52, 2 Mar 2006 (PST)

Arg... I've got the color/number order thing but I still have no idea what to do. I've tried 'taking' the numbers one by one in the correct order but nothing seems to work. Do I have to put them somewhere? Does it matter if you have or haven't rebuilt the square yet?

:You are on the right track.  No, you do not have to put the numbers anywhere, 'taking' them is fine.  No, it does not matter whether you have or haven't rebuilt the square yet.--[[User:Lachnummer|Lachnummer]] 14:12, 11 Jun 2007 (PDT)

:Mind you there are '''eight''' different colours, they can be hard to distinguish. Also each floating digit exists '''eight''' times. Hope that helps. --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 03:41, 7 Mar 2006 (PST)

:Man, this puzzle is hard.  I can't figure it out.  I just can't figure out what the colours are for. [[User:Couch|Couch]]

I have no idea where to begin with these hints people are talking about.  Are you actually supposed to be looking for a blue cat and a yellow dog?  Or do you complete some obscure task and then are given a message?  Or does it have something to do with the Linux Blue Cat and Yellow Dog?  I played through the mod not knowing there were secrets and didn't find any extras, despite my obsessive search of every corner that I always do in Half-Life games.  I even managed to get a sub-machine gun and full ammo on the first map, before you're supposed to have weapons...

:Well I noticed a picture of a blue anime character on the opening map.  Are Blue Cat and Yellow Dog the names of characters from an anime show?  The crates I used to climb a fence and get that smg ammo I mentioned above are directly in front of the blue anime picture, hiding it.  I thought before it was just KS's artistic license.  

::Yes, you complete a task (but which task, you must figure out for yourself) and then are given a message.  The walkthrough tells you roughly where to look for the tasks.  That blue anime character poster behind the crates is not the blue cat hint.  If you find the blue cat or yellow dog hint, you will know that you found it.  On the first map, I found ammo, but I was not able to get back to the street from there. I did not find an SMG. --[[User:Lachnummer|Lachnummer]] 08:51, 10 Jun 2007 (PDT)

=== The Structuralism in level design ===

I found important secret. It is not connected main story directly. But Komai brings in some meta-stories. I guess he success to construct the way of the Structuralism in level design. Half-Life series have the same way. But MOP is more complex. It needs severely reading by player side. 
My found secret is concern to something historical. Why numbers come, why they stay. To solve this secret, we need knowledge about Him. – [[User:sakugetu|sakugetu]] 15:42, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)

:I need to find resources about [http://www.archinform.net/arch/755.htm him] and [http://www.benjaminedwards.net/Utopia/image%20pages/0025.html his works] then... "L'architecture consideree sous le rapport de l'art" -[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 18:11, 26 Dec 2005 (PST)

:I'm not sure if what sakugetu is talking about has anything to do with the secrets above, so I'm moving this to the end of this section. (There's also [[Wikipedia:Structuralism#Structuralism_in_the_Philosophy_of_Mathematics|<u>this</u>]] Wiki definition I found. Nothing about architecture though.) --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 17:27, 16 Mar 2006 (PST)

== help required ==


===Spiraling Ramp Battle===

I still can't get past the machine.  A blunter hint please.  I don't see any message appearing when I enter the room either.  [[User:JimboAce|JimboAce]]

Actually, it's the room with the long winding ramp down when my friends are with me.  The door is locked at the bottom and death is my only choice. What am I missing?   [[User:JimboAce|JimboAce]]

:There's a robot in the center of the ramp, right? Maybe you can find a way to destroy it. &mdash;[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 13:27, 22 Jan 2006 (PST)

:Attack the machine's top part first with friends, then look inside to find its weak points.--[[User:N-neko|n-neko]] 18:00, 22 Jan 2006 (PST)
::Yeah, about that: I only managed to get past that one ''today''. You see, there is a bug where if you run down the spiraling ramp while it has spawned its first set of razor-thingies, it will lower itself furthest down and start spawning black headcrabs directly, ''and become invincible''. (If it was hit it just raised itself and then went back down.) It was hard to get it to sink to the middle level where it spawns fast headcrabs and stays vulnerable. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 20:29, 7 Feb 2006 (PST)
:::About that: How do you do this? I shot the windows on top easily, changing them from white to green. My teammates are still with me. Now, the machine descends one level and starts spawning manhacks. I can dispose of them with the phys gun. If I run further down after a wave or two, the machine also descends, and now starts spawning poison headcrabs, poison zombies and regular zombies. At this point, my teammates no longer shoot at the machine, but focus instead on the monsters. If all the monsters are dead (which doesn't happen for long as they're always respawning), they just run or stand around. I tried firing a lot of rockets at the windows of the machine (again), and through the bottom. I tried this both when it is spawning monsters and when it was just hovering there. It was not affected by this, apparently. Is there some weak spot I'm missing? --[[User:Darnn|Darnn]] 06:37, 4 Mar 2006 (PST)
::::Perhaps you are playing some updated version, because it doesn't have any green lights and I don't remember it spawning regular zombies.

::::The right way is this: You fire a rocket or two at the top. The machine thing will stop at the middle and start spawning manhacks.

::::If you want it to bug right now, just run all the way down to the very bottom and the machine will come after you and start spawning an infinite series of black headcrabs and be invincible 'til the cows come home (or the game lags 'til it crashes or something). If this happens, reload an earlier save.

::::If you want to proceed instead, you go about HALF-way down, until you see its inside, and fire a rocket at one of the three markers inside the bottom of the thing. It will then lower itself a level and start spawning fast headcrabs. Repeat shooting at one of those markers, and it will go down further and start spawning poison zombies and black headcrabs. Shoot the last marker and it will "die". --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 07:49, 4 Mar 2006 (PST)

:::::Aha. Thanks. That's really a pretty nasty bug, hopefully he'll address this at some point. So, now that I've passed it, could anyone be more specific about finding this secret? I mean, Blue Cat? Yellow Dog? I don't even know what that means. --[[User:Darnn|Darnn]] 09:54, 4 Mar 2006 (PST)


===Wind Tunnel Battle===

What does one do to get past the triangular machine in the wind tunnel/hall that continually spawns razors-flying-thingys?
with no weapon it is quite tricky. i have seen off 10 re-spawns of those annoying razor machines, but with no real change.

thanks for the help

Otherwise it is a great mod.&mdash;Toad23

:Take a look at the metallic stuff to the left and right. It's sparking. Also, when you enter the room, a message appears - maybe it's a hint? --[[User:Pizzahut|Pizzahut]] 13:17, 6 Jan 2006 (PST)

::cheers pizzahut, I cracked it earlier, it is weird how when you try something the first time you don't get it, but the 2nd time you do get it. what a great mod, I played it again throughout again this afternoon and it is really well thought out.

::Being an Architect I constantly look at how things are made/constructed/put together, and it puzzles me how some of this came to mind. particularly the 'gravity well' where the objects don't behave normally and you have to use the gravity gun to create stepping stones to get down: Genius!

::awesome and thanks &mdash;[[User:Toad23|Toad23]]


===The Broken Theorem===

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/1531/ksmoppita500000wo.th.jpg

i dont understand what to do :/
am in that room with the flying numbers what am i supposed to do there?
:Turn your attention toward the puzzle on the floor. It should be familiar if you know pythagoras, and you need to understand his theory to complete it. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 12:30, 6 Mar 2006 (PST)

I've been looking at this for about an hour now, I can't figure this puzzle out - Outbreak525
:Short attention span? The guy above you had the exact same problem, and my answer there is really all you should need. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 13:56, 12 Mar 2006 (PST)

Actually I figured it out. You don't need to know the theorem. When you said that i used calculations to find the diagnol side of the triangle (Pythagorean Theorem) when all you need to do is simple. I'm not gonna say it but it has nothing to do with the theorem. It's a puzzle, that's all.
:Without [[wikipedia:Pythagorean_theorem|the theorem]] the puzzle just becomes a guessing game. I didn't tell you to do calculations. Just read the theorem, word for word, not number for number. Now when you solved it, you should understand what you did. --[[User:Andreasen|Andreasen]] 16:45, 13 Mar 2006 (PST)

===The Broken Bind===

A prompt just appeared on screen to tell me how to use a new control but it read "<NOT BOUND>: Line-of-sight" etc etc
Can anyone please tell me how to bind this control using the console? It's not available in Options/Keyboard and as I have a customised keyboard layout I can't use the default controls. --[[User:Theonecynic|Theonecynic]] 10:45, 10 May 2006 (PDT)

: You don't use a key at all, just look at stuff (line-of-sight) and it will work. It's just a small bug in how the message was displayed. [[User:Rodeoclown|- RodeoClown]] 15:02, 11 May 2006 (PDT)

:: Oh yeah.... cheers mate! guess I'm too quick to assume brokenness!

== Where are mah scenes, man? ==

My Console says that all the scenes are missing from the files. Every scene is the right folder, but my game cannot seem to find them. How can I fix this? --BreakingAtTheHinges 18:04, 9 September 2010 (UTC)