View source for Talk:Team Fortress 2/Docs/Level Design

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== Multiple Payload Goal System ==
Can anybody do this when the sniper update comes?

== Starting Out ==
Hey guys and this is still a work in progress. There are quite alot of tuts to be made and depicted around here and there. So feel free to add any existing info that you might know of which has not yet been listed.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 09:52, 27 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:Currently, I'm making the spawnroom tutorial. Should be done in half an hour. --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 18:53, 27 Sep 2007 (CET)
::Okey dokey, and dont forget about the visualizer as well!--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 09:56, 27 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:::I'm done, but I cannot get the lines to start after the pictures. Could anyone look into this for me please? I've got to go. --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 19:37, 27 Sep 2007 (CET)
::::Hey I was wondering if you could find and add the skybox tutorial? I know there's one for Half Life 2 or Counter Strike. I'd find it myself and add it but I seem to have lost the link. --[[User:Sirusblk|Sirusblk]] 20:47, 24 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Measurement Article? ==

I'm currently having HUGE troubles getting the size of halls correct..Anyone willing to make an article about this? --[[User:Frostbite|Frostbite]] 18:33, 28 Sep 2007 (PDT)
:I haven't compiled any TF2 maps yet, but I have the decomped granary, well and hydro, can send if you want to check it out --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 10:25, 29 Sep 2007 (CET)
::What program do you use, mine seems to halt in the middle and crash, it doesn't recognize the new BSP format.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 11:19, 29 Sep 2007 (PDT)

The measures of the TFcharatchers is folowing:
        Length(Higth) / Width 
Heavy =     94.4     /    20.1
Demoman =   88.1     /    22.7
Engineer =  84.9     /    20.8
Medic =     88.1     /    Around 20.5
Pyro =      85.7     /    45.2
Scout =     86.5     /    85.9
Sniper =    90.8     /    49.7
Soldier =   88.1     /    51.7
Spy =       86.7     /    48.6

The medium value of the heights is 88.14 while a normal player (HL2,CSsource) hight is 72.
And the medium width whould be 45.57 and a normal charatcer is around 30. 
The sizes may change depending on Weapon and other variables.


== Easter Egg? ==

I might have discovered a TF2 easter egg. You can check it out soon in [[Baliame/TF2_EETheory|my directory here]]. --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 17:15, 29 Sep 2007 (CET)
:Sweetness!--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 11:18, 29 Sep 2007 (PDT)

== When? ==

I have done the ¨workaround¨ and i can use TF2 textures,models and new entities, but some of the textures turns into a network of squares. Im not sure if these textures works correctly as i have not yet tryed any of them in gamplay (not more than in the orginal tf2 maps). Im not sure that i can submit a map anywhere until i am sure it works correctly. Im waiting for the TF2 and Portal updates for SDK, so i can be sure everyting is on its place. I have no information about when sdk is gonna update, thoug i hav read in the Stream updatenews that they were working on them. When are they gonna update the SDK?

Today, the 7th.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 10:24, 7 Nov 2007 (PST)

So ironic i asked it the day be4 it was updated.
By the way,the update was during the night here in swe so i dinnt know.

Oh, yeah we got it around 12 i think here in the states.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 07:37, 8 Nov 2007 (PST)

:I got it at around 9-10pm here in Hungary. Same timezone as Sweden. Sometimes Steam goes retardmode and you have to restart it before it updates (I still wouldn't have it if I didn't look at the RSS). --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 08:53, 8 Nov 2007 (PST)

== Mission Briefings ==

I can't find it anywhere here or googling, but could someone tell me how to make the mission breifings in TF2? If someone who knows how could make a tutorial here, it'd be appreicated. Thanks! --[[User:Foolster41|Foolster41]] 23:03, 10 Nov 2007 (PST)

== User related entry's ==

This is odd i know, but it seems like a smart thing to have user related tuts on this page to allow people to get a different view on things, and perhaps even different ways to do them. Maybe it can stay maybe not, but it sounds like a good idea to me.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 21:22, 15 Nov 2007 (PST)

The tutorials are welcome, the only issue in the future would be too many '''Users''' on this index page, in which case a separate index page for TF2 user tutorials could be created. [[User:Spyvspy|Spyvspy]] 10:03, 17 Nov 2007 (PST)

Yes, I agree, I would like to point out that too many users creating tutorials can flood this page. I suggest to enforce a system here.
* Force users to move the tutorial out of their namespace 
** once the tutorial is completed
** the tutorial has no officially accepted version (under no namespace)
* Allow up to '''1''' tutorial on this page under a user's namespace which
** is completed
** covers a topic which already has an officially accepted version
** covers the topic in a different approach
* If the officially accepted tutorial is lower quality than the alternative then
** move the previously accepted tutorial under the original creator's namespace
** accept the lower quality tutorial as an alternative
** move the higher quality tutorial out of namespace and officially accept it
* Only accept a tutorial as an alternative and therefore place it on subject summary page if the tutorial
** is completed
** if alternative page already exists, compare quality and accept the higher quality one
** if the page covers a different approach on the topic

--[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 10:41, 17 Nov 2007 (PST)


I'd just like to point out that the original intention for my series of pages was not to have my own separate set of tutorials, but to replace the tutorials that are already here.  However, I didn't want to move things until I had replacements for all of the information in the old tutorials.  But why would I want to remove/break up the old ones in the first place, you ask?  

Well, that ties right back into Baliame's above comment.  To reduce redundancy, allow for easy addition of new information and alternate takes, and also to make that information easier to find.

The tutorials that are up are great, but they're also very broad.  Their breadth makes it difficult to add information on a given topic.  For example, if you wanted to add some information about Supply Lockers, you would have to find a place for it in the already busy Respawn Room tutorial, and hope people looking for revolutionary supply locker techniques would look there.  With the tutorials split into very topic-specific pages, you could confidently add your new info to the Resupply Areas page and know it's in the right place, where people will find it.

Also, if you have a new tutorial to add for some gameplay element that includes, for example, a team-specific door, you currently have to re-iterate that part of the respawn tutorial.  With the articles broken up and standardized, you can simply link to the team-specific door article in the See Also section.

So that's my take on this.  I think the problem is more or less solved if we keep each "official" page narrow in scope, that's the important thing.  I also suggest we standardize them like this:

* Main Section - Tutorials and notes on Mechanical or Technical issues.  Should include one tutorial that covers just the very basics, notes on other possibilities, and other tutorials for significantly different advanced techniques.  A minimum of opinion on "good map design" in this section - suggestions should be based on technical issues and not gameplay issues.
* See Also Section - Related pages, this is the primary tool in avoiding redundancy.
* Design Theory Section - This is where all the opinions on "good map design" go.

As an example, see the [[User:Daeval/TF2 How To Setup Capture The Flag|How to Setup Capture the Flag]] page.

So yeah, if everyone is ok with this, feel free to move/copy my pages into the public namespace and link to those from the front page instead.  I also want to make sure the existing editors know I intended no offense by suggesting this restructuring!  :P --[[User:Daeval|Daeval]] 11:51, 17 Nov 2007 (PST)

:I do like your tutorials, you're contributing a lot to the VDC :) I just suggest that the main page shouldn't get cluttered up with 30 respawn room tutorials, 2 is more than enough (yours and the main article). Oh, wall of text is my arch-nemesis by the way. --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 04:51, 25 Nov 2007 (PST)

== Multiple Respawn Areas ==

How can I create a second respawn area in the middle of a map to be used only after a team captures the middle control point?
:Create a respawn room like you normally would, then place one [[info_player_teamspawn]] inside it. Now setup these keyvalues:
:{| border="1"
!  Property Name || Value
|-
| Name || anything you'd like
|-
| Team || Any
|-
| Associated Control Point || name of the middle control point
|-
|}
Now create a couple of copies of this entity you just set up (by shift-dragging) and you've created the room. --[[User:Baliame|Baliame]] 09:19, 26 Nov 2007 (PST)

== Crash on Class Selection ==

When I try to select the engineer on my map, I crash. My map is fairly simple, it pretty much only has a red spawn and blu spawn (so far). --[[User:4-Legged Tumor|4LT]] 18:14, 16 Dec 2007 (PST)

== Re-Organization ==

I restructured this page in a way that I feel will be more useful and inviting to future editors.  

* Things are broken down by specific topics, and multiple variations are covered on the same page.  This makes it easier to find or add information.
* All the "User Content" stuff is going public.  Worrying about authorship is not in the wiki spirit.  New users should feel welcome to add to or modify existing pages.  That's the point of a wiki, after all.
* Large lists have been replaced with links to category pages (which are the same large lists).
--[[User:Daeval|Daeval]] 02:20, 4 Jan 2008 (PST)

Yeah, looks pretty good, like hoe its all organized now, great job.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 13:24, 4 Jan 2008 (PST)
:I think we need to take this further: the page is still a big long list, even if it does have subheadings (and thanks for that!). This needs to be a summary page that links to the big long list at [[:Category:Team Fortess 2]].
:[http://www.steampowered.com/pyro/?pw=presspreview This article is going to become an entry page shortly], so I'll be getting to work pretty quickly on it. Make your objections heard fast! :-) --[[user:TomEdwards|TomEdwards]] 06:43, 18 Jun 2008 (PDT)

== VDC diaries ==

Are they really of much use? They're all no longer updated. --[[User:A2h|A2h]] 19:59, 22 Jul 2008 (PDT)
:I'm starting to think the same. Give it Time.--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 01:38, 23 Jul 2008 (PDT)
::I removed these, sadly. Sorry guys, non of them were hardly being updated anymore. If you feel though that you will continue, feel free to throw yours back up on the Page!--[[User:MrTwoVideoCards|Gear]] 17:33, 13 Sep 2008 (PDT)

== Sticky bombs ==

Is it possible to set a surface so that you can't attach sticky bombs to it (besides making said surface part of a [[func_brush]])? &mdash;[[User:Yar Kramer|Yar Kramer]] 10:36, 29 Aug 2008 (PDT)

just put a clip brush just in front of the brush. --[[User:Craziestdan|Craziestdan]] 10:46, 29 Aug 2008 (PDT)

:Hmm. Trouble is, it's part of an already-fairly-narrow maze (56 units wide), and I don't want to get it harder to get through than it already is; it's for the purposes of concealing hidden doors, and I don't want Demomen to be able to find them just by stickybombing around (and have an advantage over non-Demoman players) ... I'll have to experiment a bit. &mdash;[[User:Yar Kramer|Yar Kramer]] 11:10, 29 Aug 2008 (PDT)

Okay, putting a [[func_clip_vphysics]] over every inch of the maze seems to work, and I seriously doubt that any human being will be able to tell the difference between a stickybomb which bounced off a wall, and a stickybomb which bounced off a 1-unit-thick invisible brush. &mdash;[[User:Yar Kramer|Yar Kramer]] 21:39, 29 Aug 2008 (PDT)
:... of course, the drawback to that approach is that if I want to subsequently alter the maze, I must then alter every single solid in the func_clip_vphysics ... Oh well ... &mdash;[[User:Yar Kramer|Yar Kramer]] 10:16, 13 Sep 2008 (PDT)

::(Incidentally, making the maze out of a func_brush seems to be the way to go, as I worked out a couple months ago. I barely even remember why I didn't want to do it that way ...) &mdash;[[User:Yar Kramer|Yar Kramer]] 19:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

== Proposing change to goal systems section ==

<pre>=== Goal Systems ===
* [[TF2/Making_an_Arena|Arena]]
* [[TF2/Creating_a_Capture_Point|Control Points]]
* [[TF2/Creating a Linear Gameplay Map|Multiple Round Control Points]]
* [[TF2/Flag Based Goal Systems|Capture the Flag]]
* [[TF2/Creating_a_Payload_Map|Payload]]
* [[TF2/Territorial_Control|Territorial Control]]
{{category cell|width=50%|background-color=white|border-color=lightgray}}
</pre>
Seems a bit better imo --[[User:A2h|a2h]] 20:03, 14 Sep 2008 (PDT)

== Not entirely sure where to ask this, but here goes: ==

I've been doing some brainstorming lately, had an idea that I want to test out on either Team Fortress 2 or Counter Strike: Source, in Hammer.

Motion sensing lights. I've been examing lighting in CSS and TF2, and I've been attempting to make a motion sensing light that turns on when a player runs over a trigger, which would be set in the ground, and have a certain radius, based on where the light object is facing. But it's stumping me. Nothing I do seems to work. What I've been trying to do is make a very dark level, with minimal lighting that is on when the game starts, but during the game, players can trip the motion sensing lights, and the lights (spotlights in my map) would flicker on, giving away the players position. I figure this idea would be best suited for Counter Strike Source, as stealth in TF2 is restricted to the Spy.

Any ideas on how to make this work? Any input would be greatly appreciated. [[User:Daedryon|Daedryon]] 22:18, 10 February 2010 (UTC)