Difference between revisions of "User talk:Thelonesoldier"

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Also,  "Maybe the more skilled community is afraid of competition from the upstarts"? For real? Well I guess your name is accurate. I really don't understand where you are getting these perceptions of laziness or elitism from, though. I hope that after you've spent a while here you mellow a bit. In the meantime, your enthusiasm and efforts are appreciated, I'm sure. --[[User:Giles|Giles]] 14:58, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)
 
Also,  "Maybe the more skilled community is afraid of competition from the upstarts"? For real? Well I guess your name is accurate. I really don't understand where you are getting these perceptions of laziness or elitism from, though. I hope that after you've spent a while here you mellow a bit. In the meantime, your enthusiasm and efforts are appreciated, I'm sure. --[[User:Giles|Giles]] 14:58, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)
 
:I thought I had the capitalization correct. I think I tried it different ways. And yes, it does need to serve two types of people, not just the people who already know the information and so feel it unecessary to put it on the pages. I can't imagine anyone who knows the stuff would come here looking for reference, especially since there isn't anything they can't get from Hammer much more easily. And yeah, "for real". When people are telling me not to add information because it's "not useful" and "too much information", I fail to see how that makes sense except to prevent this information from being readily available to beginners. For example, I personally know Campaignjunkie, and I recall that he always caters to those around his skill level and tries his best to not give any help to those he thinks are worse than himself. Nothing besides laziness or elitism could realistically explain how little real information is available in most of the articles I've looked at. [[User:Thelonesoldier|Thelonesoldier]] 15:07, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)
 
:I thought I had the capitalization correct. I think I tried it different ways. And yes, it does need to serve two types of people, not just the people who already know the information and so feel it unecessary to put it on the pages. I can't imagine anyone who knows the stuff would come here looking for reference, especially since there isn't anything they can't get from Hammer much more easily. And yeah, "for real". When people are telling me not to add information because it's "not useful" and "too much information", I fail to see how that makes sense except to prevent this information from being readily available to beginners. For example, I personally know Campaignjunkie, and I recall that he always caters to those around his skill level and tries his best to not give any help to those he thinks are worse than himself. Nothing besides laziness or elitism could realistically explain how little real information is available in most of the articles I've looked at. [[User:Thelonesoldier|Thelonesoldier]] 15:07, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)
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::"I can't imagine anyone who knows the stuff would come here looking for reference, especially since there isn't anything they can't get from Hammer much more easily"? Then you are simply mistaken in the scope of your imagination. A novice learns differently from a more experienced user. I'm not saying don't add information to the Wiki, I'm saying be careful about where you put it. There's little point putting in a mini-tutorial about brush-entities are the start of every entity page that deals with a brush-entity, for instance, because once you've read it and understood it, it just gets in the way. There are pages for beginners, which can always benefit from being more fleshed out. But there's no point, for example, bemoaning that func_detail "could still be explained better" on the entity page, when there are three articles linked at the bottom that do the job. --[[User:Giles|Giles]] 15:28, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)

Revision as of 16:28, 19 February 2007

Well what did you expect to find, whats missing, if you know something that isn't here then you should write it as thats the point of a wiki. If you want something ask, don't complain. --Angry Beaver 19:06, 16 Feb 2007 (PST)

Fair comment, but thats some work to overhual, any particular entities in mind that should undergo the process first? I think its something that should be done so starting a slow rollout of the improvement would be the way to go. --Angry Beaver 20:51, 16 Feb 2007 (PST)

What's missing in ambient_generic? It's almost exactly the same usage as in HL1 - in fact, it's probably even easier with the addition of a sound browser in Hammer. Geez, simmer down a few notches and use some common sense. Oh, and welcome. --Campaignjunkie (talk) 12:07, 17 Feb 2007 (PST)

In his defense theres a lot of useful info that could be included, like what is lfo, when valve says spinup... what do they mean? Instead of forcing everyone to experiment and research including more of the information like that might be usefull. --Angry Beaver 12:09, 17 Feb 2007 (PST)
I disagree; that stuff really isn't useful. ;) Also, no one's forcing anyone. If the information isn't there, then it isn't there. You can fill it in yourself or move on. You're not supposed to blame this entire wiki community for its inability to cater to your specific problems, because that's called "whining." --Campaignjunkie (talk) 12:17, 17 Feb 2007 (PST)

I think you've really missed the point here, and would do well to calm down. The Wiki is the product of the people that contribute to it. People the same as you, who take a few minutes or hours out of their day to add to what's here, for no reason other than that it will help out people the same as you. There is no one here who magically knows the answers to the questions you have, and who is withholding information. There is no standard that the Wiki has to attain. It's entirely a glass-half-full proposition. What's here helps you out (for example, try finding info about the flags for ambient_generic in Hammer). What's not, well you're no worse off than you were before. If you want to know about stuff but can't find it, there are ways and means of asking. Insulting the people who spend their free time making your life easier (even if it isn't easy enough for you) isn't really going to help anyone. --Giles 04:01, 18 Feb 2007 (PST)

In the past, my experience with the help desk has been that it's incredibly slow and not worth bothering with. And people like Campaignjunkie who have years of mapping experience definitely know information they aren't bothering to add because it "isn't helpful" (which is totally absurd). Articles like the ambient_generic article are absolutely worthless and might as well be deleted. All the information is copied verbatim from Hammer, which means the only people who would ever need that information already have it in an easier-to-access-location. It does hurt me because I waste my time trying to find information on the wiki and just find completely worthless summaries like "<integer> Spin up time (0-100)" which doesn't mean anything to anybody. I'm upset that VALVe is too lazy to provide documentation, and that even though way back when we had Worldcraft, it came with excellent documentation, but VALVe continually replaced the documentation sites with less useful, less navigable ones until we finally reached the Wiki, which is frustrating to navigate and usually fails to provide any useful information in the end result. And then when I come and try to suggest changes people start complaining about how adding useful information would be bad - that's "too much information"! So perhaps you can see why I'm frustrated. Thelonesoldier 11:58, 18 Feb 2007 (PST)
^ Ditto. By the way, all those LFO and spinup controls are from HL1 - and only now are you so upset about not knowing what they do? --Campaignjunkie (talk) 16:09, 18 Feb 2007 (PST)

If you are having trouble getting a link to turn blue, rather than red, it's because you have got the capitalisation wrong. It needs to match what the page was originally created with. Annoying bug, I know.

While you are running around adding lots of basic info to the entity pages, bear in mind that the Wiki needs to serve two types of people - those who want reference, and those who want beginner materials - and that the needs of those two may compete. More detail can help a beginner but hinder someone looking for reference.

Also, "Maybe the more skilled community is afraid of competition from the upstarts"? For real? Well I guess your name is accurate. I really don't understand where you are getting these perceptions of laziness or elitism from, though. I hope that after you've spent a while here you mellow a bit. In the meantime, your enthusiasm and efforts are appreciated, I'm sure. --Giles 14:58, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)

I thought I had the capitalization correct. I think I tried it different ways. And yes, it does need to serve two types of people, not just the people who already know the information and so feel it unecessary to put it on the pages. I can't imagine anyone who knows the stuff would come here looking for reference, especially since there isn't anything they can't get from Hammer much more easily. And yeah, "for real". When people are telling me not to add information because it's "not useful" and "too much information", I fail to see how that makes sense except to prevent this information from being readily available to beginners. For example, I personally know Campaignjunkie, and I recall that he always caters to those around his skill level and tries his best to not give any help to those he thinks are worse than himself. Nothing besides laziness or elitism could realistically explain how little real information is available in most of the articles I've looked at. Thelonesoldier 15:07, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)
"I can't imagine anyone who knows the stuff would come here looking for reference, especially since there isn't anything they can't get from Hammer much more easily"? Then you are simply mistaken in the scope of your imagination. A novice learns differently from a more experienced user. I'm not saying don't add information to the Wiki, I'm saying be careful about where you put it. There's little point putting in a mini-tutorial about brush-entities are the start of every entity page that deals with a brush-entity, for instance, because once you've read it and understood it, it just gets in the way. There are pages for beginners, which can always benefit from being more fleshed out. But there's no point, for example, bemoaning that func_detail "could still be explained better" on the entity page, when there are three articles linked at the bottom that do the job. --Giles 15:28, 19 Feb 2007 (PST)