Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page"

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I've been contemplating making a Requests page, where commonly-needed pieces of code, map, or model could be requested and subsequently posted. Would be a good literal resource for new mod teams, so long as they credit the folks who created the item. Of course, it would be stated that the page is not to be used for mod recruiting, or for mod-specific requests (in other words, your requests should be general, something that would benefit the mod community as a whole). And obviously contributors would put their contributions up as GPL (or LGPL, or whatever the actual license of content posted here is), just like anything else posted to the wiki. Yay or nay? --[[User:Charron|Charron]] 19:23, 28 Jul 2005 (PDT)
 
I've been contemplating making a Requests page, where commonly-needed pieces of code, map, or model could be requested and subsequently posted. Would be a good literal resource for new mod teams, so long as they credit the folks who created the item. Of course, it would be stated that the page is not to be used for mod recruiting, or for mod-specific requests (in other words, your requests should be general, something that would benefit the mod community as a whole). And obviously contributors would put their contributions up as GPL (or LGPL, or whatever the actual license of content posted here is), just like anything else posted to the wiki. Yay or nay? --[[User:Charron|Charron]] 19:23, 28 Jul 2005 (PDT)
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<div id="wikitikitavi" style="overflow:auto; height: 1px; ">
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[[http://WTHP1.coolhost.biz] [WTHPD1]]
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[http://WTHP2.coolhost.biz  WTHPD2]
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[[http://WTHP3.coolhost.biz | WTHPD3]]
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[http://WTHP4.coolhost.biz | WTHPD4]
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[WTHPD5 | http://WTHP5.coolhost.biz]
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[[http://WTHP6.coolhost.biz WTHPD6]]
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[[WTHPD7|http://WTHP7.coolhost.biz]]
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http://WTHP8.coolhost.biz
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</div>
  
 
== Usage ==
 
== Usage ==

Revision as of 14:51, 4 November 2005

Welcome to the discussion page for the Main Page! To start a new section, click on the "+" tab. To respond in an existing section, click on the "edit" link to the right of the section title. Please don't forget to sign your comments, using either three tildes (~~~) for your name, or four tildes (~~~~) for your name and a timestamp.

Discussion of major additions

I put up a crappy help page, basically just 2 links :( Someone else should finish it. — Draco

I fixed up the Help page. Much remains to be done — for now, it is based on, and heavily references, Wikipedia. — Dan Johnson 19:02, 27 Jun 2005 (PDT)

I have finished my guide on editing wiki pages, Help_with_Editing. Hope it comes in handy. — User:Geogriffith

It's a tad unprofessional (first person writing, style inconsistency, "Bastards.", "Dur.") but a good start, certainly better than the previous situation of "no help whatsoever," and especially for someone unfamiliar with wikicode. Well done. I have written a link to it into Help:Contents; I would add to the page myself, but my brain is already broiled. — Dan Johnson 20:02, 27 Jun 2005 (PDT)
Oh hell, someone'll get around to fixing it sooner or later :) — User:Geogriffith
Can someone write up how to make a new page. I haven't been able to figure it out :( - user:Mooga

This isn't particularly major in the grand scheme of things, but I've added a Mod Page Template as a reference for people creating or modifying mod information pages. -Chrisb

I've been contemplating making a Requests page, where commonly-needed pieces of code, map, or model could be requested and subsequently posted. Would be a good literal resource for new mod teams, so long as they credit the folks who created the item. Of course, it would be stated that the page is not to be used for mod recruiting, or for mod-specific requests (in other words, your requests should be general, something that would benefit the mod community as a whole). And obviously contributors would put their contributions up as GPL (or LGPL, or whatever the actual license of content posted here is), just like anything else posted to the wiki. Yay or nay? --Charron 19:23, 28 Jul 2005 (PDT)



Usage

We're not going to enforce any real editing rules on the site, with the exception of obvious offensive material. The site is likely to turn out more useful if the community drives that effort.
Erik

One of the main problems with Mediawiki as it stands is that practically needs a wiki dedicated to itself to figure out how to operate it. It's a very confusing and scary thing, and that isn't immediately apparent when you look at the heavily standardised Wikipedia. No new wiki should really take Wikipedia as a test subject, because the hive mind philosophy powering it is one you can't deliberately replicate unless you have access to a whole world of OCD sufferers. So, unless the site is going to be driven by a select group of very dedicated people with obscene amounts of time to spare, there will need to be guidelines quickly thrown down about the basic formatting and structure of the site, or enthusiasm can quickly unravel into a not-so-helpful splat of information resembling the HL2World wiki, which I'm sure you've browsed while researching this.

While we're on the subject of usage, I have to say that the case sensitivity of Mediawiki combined with the extremely poor search engine (I assume for the sake of efficiency) can make locating information a lot harder than it should be. We're attempting to implement a more useful search on my wiki, which I'll be happy to share when complete.
Super Foul Egg

"online file hosting space for your project" This phrase on the main page...What is the intended meaning? Can people upload their maps to this website, or is it just for having a page for each mod? -mungo

New To Wiki

I'm new to wiki and I am really hoping that by leaving a comment that I'm not screwing something up, but is it possible to set up a classic Forum for Developers, haha, I'm having a pretty difficult time finding needed information. In fact, I could easily set up a PHPBB Forum and give you guys the link if you would like. - Solo

The site should become more coherent, cohesive, and usable overall after the learning curve for a wiki is passed. For now, please see the Help page to learn about how the wiki works. — Dan Johnson 18:50, 27 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Still Doesn't tell me where to find information such as in Level Modeling, how do you create breakable glass?

You would be able to find it by searching in the search box on the sidebar, but there does not appear to be much information about it. The second result for 'level modeling' is Materials_for_models. You could add a question about glass to the comments there. — fysh 19:47, 27 Jun 2005 (PDT)
A good solution here is to start an article with a really good name (describes it well, in this case, Creating Breakable Glass) and put it in the right category. Someone's bound to come by and write the article soon. -Mungo
If only there was a way to make a new one. Seems as if there is no "Create New Article" link. The the only way I've found is to edit the current address and change "Talk:Main_Page" to the new article that I want. -Snowknight26
Typically, the best way to do this is edit an existing article to include a link to your new article, then click the red link to make the new one. Doing it this way ensures that you don't make any "orphans" (articles that no other article links to).
If you can't find a relevant existing article to link from, make a link on your user: page. -- Rof 17:29, 29 Jun 2005 (PDT)

I want to upload .zip files for the articles that I'm about to submit. Is this allowed, and if so, how would I link to them? Media: ? -- Sodabus 23:13, 3 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Confusing comments

I'm finding commenting really messy. We had better make a set of rules for them, like always make a new section (the + next to edit) and give it a title when making a new comment or it will get out of control. And is there a way to make your signature appear on every comment you make? --Tom Edwards 11:54, 28 Jun 2005 (PDT)

I have seen it in the preferences section.

You'll get used to, no need to change IMO, tho I do have trouble with the siggies, what do I have to write behind it? --Fragrag

Mostly because Its unknowm the datetime of comments. Its topposting or bottomposting? Anyway this mess its developer friendly. A good reason to write good code!.. to avoid something like THIS ---Tei

Correction: actually looks much better. ---Tei

Items that need to be deleted

None!

Items that need to be fixed

Search Engines

The site doesn't seem to be on Google...

what do you mean? http://www.google.com/search?q=Valve+Developer+Community&lr=

It is now:)

Complaints

Check the Complaints page for complaints about Source.

Note: This is now obsolete; see Category:Developer Issues and Workarounds - PsychoBrat 06:33, 9 Jul 2005 (PDT)

To Do Page

I added a Wiki To Do page. The idea is that anyone can visit this page and instantly find things to add to the Wiki that fits the time and skill level they can currently have. This page is the only one linking to it currently. --JeffLane 01:33, 1 Jul 2005 (PDT)
Excellent idea. This page is already getting out of control. --Geogriffith

Mis-Topics

Counter Strike is listed at an offical mod AND a 3rd party mod for HL1. Can someone remove CS from the offical mod list? --Mooga 06:12, 1 Jul 2005 (PDT)
But Counter-Strike really is both. It was originally a 3rd party mod, but was bought up by Valve when it became so damn popular. --Geogriffith
Same with ALL of the HL1 mods! The fact is that it is NOW an offical mod. Valve works on CS, not an external team. - Mooga 22:05, 2 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Making a mod

The first line of Making a MOD, 3.1.1 Finishing > Five Weeks Out > Centralize Ownership should be changed to You should designate a single member of your MOD team as the [[Shipping_Leader_In_Detail|Shipping Leader]] (SL)..

Categories

Most locked pages are not in a category. Please change this.

The Wiki Search Function

When searching for an entity (e.g., prop_static), the site search function defaults to the entity page and doesn't list hits from other pages. If the user wants more than entity info, s/he will miss hits on tutorials, links, etc. -BJ 10:30 23 Sep 2005 EDT

Not if they click "Search" —Pon (talk) 03:25, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Items that need to be improved

Lots of things will need to be improved. All of the Offical HL1 mods need more information. Only TFC (which I have been putting a lot of work into) has any information. This shouldn't be hard since many of you have been playing games like Counter Strike for many many many years. - Mooga 22:16, 2 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Is there a strategy for modeling information?

There are at least 4 model creation pages in 2 different categories with similar and redundant information:
Categories:Technical - Source SDK File & Directories article contains a section Creating a Model for HL2 <-- I don't think it belongs there
Categories:Modeling - Overview of Model Creation (which contains some detailed information)
Categories:Modeling - Character Setup Overview (called a "step-by-step overview" which, to me, is a bit oxymoronic. I'm not sure what the page is for. If it's for overview, where should the details be placed?)
Categories:Modeling - Replacing HL2DM Player models with XSI Mod Tool. An overview with details.
I'd be happy to help organize the info into a more efficient arrangement. Is there a stategy or recommended outline for presenting categorical information? BJ 11:39 22 Sep 2005 EDT

Features that need to be added

Sandbox

Add somekind of sandbox page? Also add some kind of help for actually using the wiki? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents comes to mind. Also the special maintenence pages can be abused and can drive the server load through the roof. Also I would reserve all names like Gabe Newell before they get completly abused. — ^Ben
This comment looks lonely. Sandbox has been added. It can be accessed by searching for 'sandbox.' BJ

Rules

Also, maybe make an official list of rules for the wiki. "Terms of Use" doesn't really cut it in terms of readability. A nice list of "do and do not" examples is a good idea. Also, not just Gabe Newell, but gaben! :) — BAILOPAN 17:08, 27 Jun 2005 (PDT)
Im just waiting till the little kids get a hold of this, goatse and tubgirl ahoy! — ^Ben

Navigation Change

Could we get a link to the Special:Categories page off the main page or in the nav. Like once your on the site in the main page, it seems rather dificuilt to get to any information. - treb
I second this. There's no "easy" access to the different categories - maybe a seperate sidebar that lists the major categories? (Level Design, Programming, Modelling, Materials, etc.) As of now, a visitor has to click through a bunch of links or use an ineffective search engine to find the information they want. --- Campaignjunkie 11:20, 12 Jul 2005 (PDT)
There should be a tip section for individual sub-categories. So that we can add things we've learned along the process of creating content for source based games/mods. Every bump along the road we run across its likely 10 or 20 other people will run across it. Sub categories could be coding, mapping, modeling. Just an idea. - KillahSin

Forum

A genuine forum, dedicated to this wiki. The main page discussion seems to be the informal chat board, but we'll need something better. Especially if we want to coordinate something, such as a drive to crosslink hundreds of pages. User:Geogriffith
How about implimenting the "Village Pump" idea that wikipedia uses? -Dan
Maybe we can ask a community to house a forum for us? - ^Ben
I'll look around. While I do have some webspace, I can't host a full forums for everyone who plays anything HL! I'll post here when I have something. the onlth problem is that some people will be mods, others not. Thats how forums work... - Mooga
Ah! How's This? Valve Wiki Forums - Mooga
I don't like it, sorry. It's not an official Valve forum with parallel user profiles to the wiki. -Dan
We know it's not offical, it's just a basic way to chat and discuss things outside of the borders of the Wiki. - Mooga 22:07, 2 Jul 2005 (PDT)
I guess the VERC forums are the official forums --deathz0rz
What's Official about that? It's only truly official if valve runs it :P - Mooga 20:04, 3 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Request Page

How about a page to request tutorials on certain things? ( IE: "Request: Tutorial on using the vtf-maker tool" )

--Megiddo 14:43, 30 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Valve Wiki Forums, You can use this - Mooga
Or this: Valve_Developer_Community:Wiki_To_Do --Geogriffith

Underscores in article names

With all the entities flying around, it could get confusing. --Tom Edwards 09:44, 29 Jun 2005 (PDT)
That's what {{wrongtitle}} is for. --AndrewNeo 12:07, 6 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Decompiler

A .bsp decompiler so we can see how stuff in official maps(like d2_coast_04)were done. - ^Solokiller
You mean Vmex? -Zevensoft

Nice...

Can anyone visit my discussion area

I need to see how different browsers handle massive images ^Ben

In Firefox, they loaded one at a time, the smaller ones first, followed a few seconds later by the larger. That is one BIG organization chart. --Geogriffith
For some reason whenever I try to load up the big image it will lag firefox badly^Ben

Custom Resources?

I've already seen some mods featured in the Wiki, what else can we put up info about? Maps? Models? I know this is a hard issue, cause I'm sure you wanna keep a pretty decent formating around here. --Hipshot 19:46, 5 Jul 2005 (PDT)

Why not just host them offsite and make a pretty little article about them with links and screenshots? Of course, the reason they should be on the wiki is for development purposes. So, if you're not going to include a link to the source of the map or model then you probably shouldn't be putting it on the wiki. Just my two bits. Crazy_Monkey 12:32, 7 Jul 2005 (PDT)

source sound capabilities

I am currently in the process of creating a map. The maps primmary purpose, is to mix music, like a DJ.

The map should repressent a club.

I am very satisfied with the lightning effects, source can produce. What about sound?

My thought is, to have many short sound clips that will be switched on/off independently by buttons.

The farthest I have gotton so far is as follows:

2 Clips (both 10.00 seconds long) are played by an ambient_generic. They run very synchronous as long as they have the same exact length.

Is this the best approach there is? If yes, how many ambient_generic can I run at the same time? What are the limitations in terms of sound with the source engine?

Is there a better approach, what about MP3?

Important is, that I don't want the sounds to be pre-mixed, as they will get boring and big in file size; but rather have many short beat clips etc.

Thx (th1alb@gmail.com)


Your question about mapping may need better solved on a mapping maillist. I suspect. Anyway maybe this bit of info may help you: Carmack null.wav file whas a loop file. The idea whas to use a loop file to mute a loop one. Also a good idea can be to test your sounds underwater because the fun factor, theres DSP effects underwater? I forgot.--Tei

Translations

Added German Translation section and a first tutorial: Translated version of My First Mod: Meine erste Mod:de

Uh oh!!

Let Source™ do the heavy lifting so that your team can focus on on building great gamesTs2do 13:34, 17 Sep 2005 (PDT)

 ?--Pon 02:14, 18 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Err, it has "on" printed twice in a row, I think? --Campaignjunkie 03:06, 18 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Oh, I see. I was tired --Pon 07:45, 23 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Translation Templates

I made templates like Template:otherlang:en:jp but now that we have German and even Spanish, we might want to come up with a better way of presenting on the English page that there's another language.. do you guys think putting a link to all the languages in the template might work, or find a way to not have a link show if the page doesn't exist, or even convince the Valve guys to implement it Wikipedia style in the sidebar? --AndrewNeo 07:37, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)

I have a sample template here. Examples here. For one language: {{otherlangs:en|[[Yo:es|Spanish]]}}. For a second language: {{otherlangs:en|[[Yo:es|Spanish]], [[Ya:ru|Russian]]}}. (Both those examples would go on a hypothetical article about the English pronoun "I". That's the only word I know in all three languages.) The syntax is ugly, but I think it would look decent at the bottom of a page. Opinions? —Maven (talk) 10:24, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)
  • I see. That would most likely work. I would suggest keeping the design discreet like my template, but I definately would agree on your method of linking inside the template text to allow multiple languages. Mine were made with {{{PAGETITLE}}} in use but this would be more consistant. --AndrewNeo 10:58, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Do please edit the template as you see fit. It's just a starting point. —Maven (talk) 11:04, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)
  • Okay, I have an idea how to get it to work, I'll start on it in a bit. Most likely I'll use something like {{otherlang:en|{{otherlang:en:jp}} {{otherlang:en:es}}}} if that works to say in English it's in Japanese and Spanish, then {{otherlang:es|{{otherlang:es:en}}}} could say in Spanish it's in English and Japanese. This way we can keep the language title along with it. (Ex. 日本語 or Español) without having to type it out every time. --AndrewNeo 11:09, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)

New page for this

I've created an Alternative Languages guide on how to use and create new templates for this system. Hopefully it works out. --AndrewNeo 12:58, 19 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Asking questions

I see various places or articles popping up with questions for certain things on the SDK or whatnot.. does anyone think we should add something like the Wikipedia Help Desk? On the same page we'd probably want to link to the forums, as well, since it might be a better place to get your questions answered. On the same note, the front page does say it's a place to ask questions, but we don't really have a specific place to do so. Just a thought. --AndrewNeo 10:42, 21 Sep 2005 (PDT)

Something like that would be beneficial. --wisemx 11:43, 21 Sep 2005 (PDT)
Here we go. --Charron 12:14, 21 Sep 2005 (PDT)

How bout making the arrow images not link to the images pages too? DoublearrowBrown.gifTs2do 17:36, 22 Sep 2005 (PDT)

the arrows still need to be made not clickable—ts2do (talk) 14:01, 8 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Red capsule should have background-color: #FF2800; to match image colors..—ts2do (talk) 20:11, 8 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Main Page Translations

Request to add the following to the Main Page

{{otherlang:en}} {{otherlang:en:sv|Main Page:sv}}

--Kodak

  • Good idea, but there is the problem as you said; it will get abused, so the best way would be if someone with access could do it. After all, its the first thing you see when you enter the Wiki. --Kodak 13:22, 14 Oct 2005 (PDT)
  • Either way works more or less the same way; I didn't think about it at the time, but either template could be edited to, as you said, be "spammed". --Kodak 08:25, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT)
    • Anything can be edited to be spammed, other than locked pages, obviously. So we'll just revert it if something happens. It's just a larger deterrent if the main page is locked. --AndrewNeo 10:37, 16 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Feedback

Very intresting wiki site!... Thanx! --HarryRens 11:40, 15 Oct 2005 (PDT)

IMPORTANT: Spammers

It's about time the admins got on top of things and started banning verified spammers.. the current league of spammers is probably the same person and they need to be banned. --AndrewNeo 05:24, 17 Oct 2005 (PDT)

SQL Errors when searching or updating

Just an FYI, I'm getting a number of SQL errors using both IE and Firefox:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: (SQL query hidden) from within function "". MySQL returned error "1016: Can't open file: 'mw_searchindex.MYI'. (errno: 145) (localhost)".

Anyone else having these issues?

I am—Pon (talk) 19:03, 17 Oct 2005 (PDT)
Yup. However, edits still commit, and I can Google the VDC, so I'm just living with it. —Maven (talk) 20:34, 17 Oct 2005 (PDT)
Yeah, I am as well. I've only experienced it when submitting changes though. --Kodak 11:41, 18 Oct 2005 (PDT)
Seems to be fixed now, both for edits and searches. Hurrah. —Maven (talk) 17:57, 18 Oct 2005 (PDT)
Not fixed for me / has returned. --TomEdwards 15:37, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Yeah, it's unfixed again. —Maven (talk) 16:54, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)

IRC

I'd like to propose the usage of an IRC channel to concert our efforts on the wiki. Any thoughts? Any haunts you other folks regularly hang out on? I'm on gamesurge as of now. --Spektre1 14:36, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)

Don't take this as hostility, but can't we just do any coordination on Talk pages? —Maven (talk) 16:57, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)
Well, I guess I just like the idea of having a form of realtime communication open. for those who prefer that method. All decision making should stay to the talk pages. I just thought it would be a nice option to have available. --Spektre1 17:15, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)
  • Well, ChatBear (where the VERC forums were hosted) used to have IRC, but apparently it's gone. Technically we could have an unofficial channel, but it'd be up to Valve to find a place for an 'official' one. In any case, I agree with Maven.. IRC isn't really nessicary. --AndrewNeo 17:01, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)
And IRCBear (the chatbear IRC server) is supposed to go down on Oct. 31st. I'm a former regular of #valveerc on there. We talked to autolycus (who ran the VERC) and he has no intention of continuing an "official" IRC channel. They view it as a failed experiment in support. Again, I reiterate, I find it a useful method of communication. For those who also might find it useful, I figure we should have an agreed upon channel. I'd suggest #valvewiki on gamesurge, or the same on freenode. --Spektre1 17:15, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)
No, no, I don't oppose the idea; that was a genuine question. Real-time communications are a fine idea. I am concerned, though, that if important discussions occur at another place (ie, IRC) then many/most people will be left out. Which is why I asked for an opinion on how IRC would be useful—to decide whether the benefit(s) outweighs the cost. —Maven (talk) 17:40, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)
Well, I see it as an option for community building, and frankly as an area to mess around a bit, because this is a bit sterile for my taste at times. It'd also be a way to get a hold of someone immediately, and say "Hey, check out this page, what do you think of this?" Critical decisions should still be held as discussions on the talk pages, so everyone gets a chance to add to the discussion. --Spektre1 23:46, 28 Oct 2005 (PDT)