Help talk:Mod Profiles
Valves admin Jeff Lane has now approved this article. Quote from Admins noticeboard:
"Seems reasonable. ModDB already does an excellent job at this function, and a mod and game database is not really part of the scope of the VDC currently. Documentation specific to a particular mod (how to use its entities, for example) seems more suited to the site. --JeffLane 22:23, 10 February 2011 (UTC)"
It does seem like he might want to have us remove even more (all?) third party mod entries, but we can start by flagging the ones without proof of concept, as that's currently about 60% of all mod articles on the VDC. --MossyBucket (formerly Andreasen) 16:50, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
As you can see, I changed the page quite a bit, but I kept most of what you wrote, just pruned some wording slightly. What do you think? Thelonesoldier 18:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- It's hard to spot if you've actually changed any policies, but at a glance it looks alright and agreeable. --MossyBucket (formerly Andreasen) 18:58, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
- Not any policy, really, just wording and more information. Thelonesoldier 19:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
Inofficial positive rant
Instead of mumbling something about "You noobs get off my lawn!", let me put it to you modders this way:
When was the last time that waiting for a release was a good thing?
Let's take an extreme example: Wouldn't it have been a whole lot better if 3D Realms didn't announce that they were making Duke Nukem Forever back when dinosaurs walked the earth? Wouldn't it have spared us a whole lot of agonizing waiting? It turned a great release into a single question: "Was it worth the wait?"
The more you let people wait for a release, the more they'll start having expectations (especially if you claim that it's "awesome" and "amazing"), so that even if you do release the game, it won't be met with any cheers. This is why I don't understand why ANYONE (Yes, even Valve.) would announce anything that's still in its Alpha phase.
Personally, I wouldn't announce anything I was working on, until it's absolutely done. If I would want to drum up expectations (which I think is pretty cruel), I'd let people wait for about a week. In that way I don't feel that I have to hurry myself either, and thus don't have to give up the rest of my life for something that I would soon enough look upon as a chore.
--MossyBucket (formerly Andreasen) 12:09, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
- Commercially it's a good strategy. Look at how long they hyped Black Ops and how well it sold. Nobody waited to find out if it was actually good. I wouldn't be surprised if Nukem does well but it won't do that well.
- As for mods, I mean Black Mesa is a joke, but I'll still play it when it is released. But you can't build a team if you don't announce your game, unless you're friends with enough modders. Thelonesoldier 20:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
- I think half of the matter we're not including here is how most modders tend to trail off onto other projects, or that their real life ends up getting in the way. However I feel there needs to be some form of hype, even if that lingers over a years time. Black Mesa isn't much of an example, considering it's a remake anyways. However the problem is is that most modders at first don't realize how much work they are actually taking upon themselves. Most end up following through, but it turns into a matter of years before that work is finished. It then also depends on the number of people in that mod team, and how well they work with each other, and how well they are able to stay motivated to spend more than 4 hours a day modding.
- I think it's the process most modders are probably going to deal with, until the end of time, no matter how much easier it becomes to use tools to make games. Each modder has to go through that process of learning what they can't and can do with an engine, and thats usually only something that happens after you go out and fool around, and announce things, and then learn from that experience.
- Valve has stated in their hiring practices that they only care that you managed to release a project, and more importantly that you learned from that experience, and that you'll take that gained knowledge with you. But thats away from the point a bit. However more or less my point is, is we have to encourage modders to kinda fail at what they want to do. The real modders are going to stick around, and persevere, while the others that really aren't built for game design are going to fall away. It's like we're physically putting the game design community through a strainer.--MrFourVideoCards 02:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
So far we've been marking for deletion the articles which have lacked proof of concept and updates for a year or more, but should we also be marking newly created articles with no proof of concept for deletion? I have in mind Evangelion at the moment. Thelonesoldier 01:22, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- I guess that heavily depends on the content. Based on that article, I'd say it's a fine idea to do so, but I guess if mods happen to have a more reasonable design draft, even at an early stage, the best any of us could do is monitor that mod, and see how well it does.--MrFourVideoCards 03:00, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- I was away dog-sitting during the weekend, but would I have seen somebody announce his mod here, I would have sent him a message telling him about how much better ModDB is for this purpose, pictures or not. --MossyBucket (formerly Andreasen) 07:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)