Category talk:Level Design

From Valve Developer Community
Jump to navigation Jump to search

This is very interesting, but I can't find any contact info to get permission and it is probably needs an update too. Can anyone help? --Tom Edwards 06:11, 29 Jun 2005 (PDT)

Checking the forums will probably yield something ^Ben
I have uploaded all the entitys images in a nice easy to use gallery http://ben.shadow-phoenix.com/quickgallery/ User:^Ben


It would be really cool if someone could contact the authors to get permission to convert these tutorials HERE for HL2 as the archicture tutorials are expert tutorials on creating professionally done maps. --BLacKcHeeTaH


Blah

Personally, I think multiple languages all put together in 1 wiki is cluttersome —Ts2do 13:01, 18 Sep 2005 (PDT)

On the subject, is it just me or does this category seem quite cluttered and unorganised? `zozart .chat @ 01:57, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)

Personally, I think the whole Source doc category system is messy. All those headings, followed by a huge lump of category articles. There needs to be a series of concise tutorials in the category 'article' space, not a list of everything! --TomEdwards 03:17, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)
See User:TomEdwards/sandbox --TomEdwards 07:09, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)
I like the idea of two columns. See User:Zozart/category_test `zozart .chat @ 09:05, 21 Jan 2006 (PST)

akilling.org links

Well, they are obviously dead since akilling.org has been shutting down. :(

There is a mirror here: http://www.gmodcentral.com/mirror/akg/index.htm I don't really know what gmodcentral.com is, judging from the forums they try to finance the server via donations. That raises questions how long this site will be online... and they don't host the sample maps.

Now, we can replace all the links to that mirror, wait/make a better mirror, or maybe we could convert the tuts to the wiki... User:Mark_WiseCarver did allow others to mirror the site etc and has also contributed to the wiki, I think he won't have any objections.

Thoughts? --Vaarscha 23:36, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)

He won't have any objections because he left...—ts2do 23:49, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
I know... but I was thinking of answering any copyright questions before they pop up. --Vaarscha 23:51, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
Nah...he does (did) it for the community: it seems leaving places for him is a recurring thing [1]—ts2do 23:53, 5 Apr 2006 (PDT)
At the hlmappers maillist I mentioned a temporary url for the akg forums.. http://66.191.215.182/ . Now I was looking at that url again and saw that they moved it ( the forums only ) to http://sourcemapping.org/forum/login.asp?target=default.asp --Jurgen Knops 03:50, 6 Apr 2006 (PDT)
All the tuts seem to be up at http://www.sourcemapping.org/tuts , so perhaps just point the links to there instead... - RodeoClown 16:29, 23 Apr 2006 (PDT)
GMODCENTRAL's game servers are helped by donations, but the website will be up until we decide we don't want it to be. Our initial contract is one year. So don't expect any changes before then. --Eraser 18:47, 11 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Could someone please answer/discuss the main issue here: what to do with the broken links? --Vaarscha 12:49, 6 Apr 2006 (PDT)

I'm not hugely familiar with AKG or its history. My first reaction though would be: If you can contact the articles' authors and get permission, put them directly on here. If not, link to mirrors. If there are no mirrors, delete the links. --Giles 02:02, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
As said above, I think that there's no legal issue if we post his tutorials here. But there are some other problems: 1. overlaps with existing articles 2. tuts depend on example maps (not hosted here) 3. style is different from the usual wiki articles.
If we can find solutions to the problems I'd have no problem with adding the tutorials here (including working on it). Otherwise, we should link to one of the mirrors. Which one is a decision I will not make on my own, we should finally find a consent. --Vaarscha 07:05, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
I sent all of the files to Joe, owner of the sourcemapping.org site.
Don't know if that server will be able to support the bandwidth needed but the files are on-line now.
We have been talking about my possibly creating a new site with Video Tutorials, primarily.
I'm really sorry if I've caused any inconvenience by taking akilling.org down. --wisemx 14:25, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
Forgot to post the new server --wisemx 16:15, 15 Aug 2006 (PDT)
Sdknuts is closing down, I have Marks permission to add the content here, but as stated above, any ideas what to do with sample maps etc? --Peter [AGHL] 14:53, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)

A good shot would be to use hosting sites. I think we should keep sample maps and other files (especially large ones) out of the wiki (I don't even know what other files, apart from image files, you are allowed to upload here on the VDC). The wiki is aimed more at documentation rather than content hosting, and we should keep it that way or else we might risk it becoming an authentic "garbage bin" and perhaps even risk killing the site's bandwidth. --Etset 15:30, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)

Ok no problem - any hints as "how to" create TOC and also apply the "correct" style? first page: WiseHouse --Peter [AGHL] 16:23, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
To force the creation of the TOC, just add "__TOC__" (without quotes) to the top of the article. The style of the article is something hard to define. An article shouldn't be excessively long (your mileage may vary, of course) and should avoid peackock terms, whilst being generally well written and easy to read and interpret. Links to other articles should exist (never in excess: generally you shouldn't link more than once), and the article should be categorized. Using images is very important, but their placement and how they are used have a huge impact on the general looks of an article, so they should be used in order to prevent the page from looking like...well...crap, if you pardon the expression. For example: avoid having extremely large images in the middle of the text; One should take advantage of the extended image syntax available, to format the appearance of images; When uploading an image, that image should follow the image use policy; Etc.
Of course all of this doesn't have to be done right at the beginning of the article, that's why this is a wiki: things are constantly being improved. So don't worry if it's not perfect at first. Also, take a look at other articles to get the general "feel" of it, for example articles in: Category:Level Design.
Oh, one last thing, please use the Show preview button before submitting (i.e. Save page button) your text, otherwise you're filling up the Recent Changes page with unnecessary items every two minutes, making it harder to read through. Thanks! :) --Etset 16:57, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
Will do, btw how long do I have before the session times out?
Lost changes a couple of time as was forced to the login screen, do I need to keep a copy in eg notepad? thanks ... --Peter [AGHL] 17:04, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
I sincerely don't know how much time it takes to timeout, but here's a tip: when you submit your changes (whether it be the Save page or Show preview button), and realize that your session has timed out, just press the "Back" button and, hopefully, all your text will be there. Then, open another window (or tab) and log into the VDC there. Switch back to the tab you're editing your text at: now you can submit your text.
I'll use notepad as temp placeholder :) --Peter [AGHL] 22:56, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
Forgot to mention earlier: an article should use "== Headers ==" in sufficient number to clearly split it up into reasonably-sized and logical (i.e. coherent) sections. Extremely large-sized sections (your mileage may vary...) should be avoided, as that can easily lead any reader into extreme boredom! :) --Etset 17:12, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
Yep you can use one or more equal signs depending on the level of the header - and the text will go into the TOC --Peter [AGHL] 22:56, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
PS: Oh and using the Show preview button helps to "refresh" your login session, so there's another reason to use it hehe :P --Etset 17:14, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)
Nahh sometimes I am checking other stuff, I have been used to save frequently by using ctrl-S (developer), I will change my habit a little for this project :) --Peter [AGHL] 22:56, 4 Feb 2008 (PST)

hey i need some help with lighting can anybody help?

Im new to game desionging so i not that good with lighting yet but ive put a couple ligts in a hallway and stairway. they light of the floor but not the celling. also i seem to have a problem getting the sun entity into the sky. it stays horizontal to the player and when im on a hiogher elvation the sun follows me.

Need help thanks.

You have to set the sun entity's angle to a different one...that changes the infinite projection location of it.. for the lights, which material are you using for the ceiling? it may be because the material is made for models or is set to the unlit shader.—ts2do 20:36, 29 Apr 2006 (PDT)

Seriuos help

Okay so i have a bad problem. Hammer keeps giving me errers and and its really slowed down my Mod. The first error is "Windows specified the error" cannot find file specifeid. What the heck that doesnt make any sense and i alreayd tried steams help and support. cant find the dang ask a qustion tab anyware. and tyhen when i compile my map Hl2 starts up normaly then the consle pops up and it loads my map but then the screen keeps flickering like its changing resolutions or someting. then an error window pops up and it says HL2.exe encountered a problem and needs to shutoff. The file is datacahe.dll and accompat.txt in my temp folder. this sucks i need major help. it be greatly aprricated if someone can help with this or leats tell me how to fix it. I can still add brushs and the whole bit. but when it trys to compile it says file not found. and its the only file on my second hardrive so thata why it doesnt make any sense.

Thanks


someone should really help him is anyone going to? (I am new go modding too sry) True_Unity 14:55, 15 Aug 2006 (PDT)

Outer Space??

Hello, I have been tearing at HL2 SDK for a while now trying to get a MOD to go into outer space. I've done many things just short of completely breaking steam :P "sv_gravity 0" gives the no gravity affect, but you cant move. My guess is it's extremely simple or extremely hard. either way I desire to see HL2 in space! Anyone out there have a strategy or tutorial for making a space age level?

Sir_BigOne 7:47pm, 24 March 2007 (PST)


Have you tryed the mod ESMOD or in other words the Enternal silence mod? try that one as it is all SPACE!!!!--Gear 18:11, 4 Apr 2007 (PDT)

Help with options setup for Gmod.

Hi. I was wondering if anyone would help me out with how to set up the options parameters for Gmod 10. I've lightly mapped for CS:S, and would just like to know what to put in all those darned boxes you gotta fill out. (In Hammer, Tools > Options > it brings up Configure Hammer.) I have no idea what folders and all I need to add, put in, enter, etc... Please help, or send an E-Mail to ( xxdeiblerxx@yahoo.com )

thank ya.


Large Edit

Well i edited the area a bit more and organized everything alot better hopefully to all of your eyes along side mine, so tell me what you guys think. Mainly i tried to simplify everything as much as i could. The goal truly is when a new person wants to map, everything here should be easy to find and right away let that person know where it might be under or categorized next to. Mainly when anyone new comes along they might say "well hey i wanna light things up!" So they see that there is a lighting section and viola! They see and find exactly what they where looking for.--Gear 03:25, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

I have two objections: How does (the obscurely titled) "Creating a Level", which seem to handle the file management of a mod, fit into the Architecture category? Also, "Creating Holes in Displacements" is more of a subfield to "Displacements", and it's linked from that page too. --Andreasen 04:25, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
Yeah thats what i was thinking yet you can place those where be for now. Ill find a good place for "Creating a Level" as for that "holes in displacements" ill get rid of that, but yup agree with you all the way.--Gear 04:37, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
Your edits are too numerous for me to keep track of, but I have some more pointers:
  • If possible, an order according to work flow or relevance is often better than an alphabetized order.
  • There is already a link to Nodegraph. (Last time I checked, there are two now, the other one being called "Nodegraph Creation".)
  • I'm not sure that "editable" is a word. It could just say "Source games".
--Andreasen 04:53, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
The page HDR links to everything within your "LDR and HDR" category except Phong, and the page Lighting links to everything withing your "Lighting category" except Lightmap. Just linking to HDR and Lighting, and adding links to Phong and Lightmap to these pages respectively, will create a shorter and easy-to-browse list. Linking to HDR from Lighting will also trim down the list further. By the way, I don't know that much about Phong, but I don't believe that it has anything to do with HDR. It's more of a shading effect. --Andreasen 06:21, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Alrighty and thanks for the feedback, ill get on it right away!--Gear 06:31, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)


Also as to the lighting, I understand that it would be more simple but just wanted to keep these links here for right now. Either way you'll have to reload the previous page or just hit the back button. For right now they will stay but if many others find it annoying then yeah ill take em out.

Reverted

I've reverted these changes. This layout increased the size and complexity of the page by a large amount instead of serving the stated goal of simplifying it. If anything, the page should get smaller, not larger. Also, any large changes to high-traffic pages like this should not be made without previous discussion on the talk page. When you are proposing large design changes, you can create prototype versions of the pages in your own userspace (i.e. User:MrTwoVideoCards/Level Design category layout) if necessary. The previous version is still available in the revision history. --JeffLane 09:56, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Isn't it sort of unfair to do that, i belive that we should let others speak for themselves rather than just you Jeff, i understand where you are coming from but just you do not agree with it doesn't mean everyone will hate it.--Gear 10:07, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

As moderators on this site, we have a responsibility to retain a certain level of quality of our official documentation. Any large changes to high-traffic pages like this should not be made without previous discussion on the talk page. That allows for fair feedback on the proposed changes before they are made. --JeffLane 10:39, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
I should point out, I mean feedback by anyone who wishes to give it, not just one of the moderators. --JeffLane 10:41, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)
I agree with Jeff here. The Level Design page should, in my opinion, be shrunk even further. I don't currently have the time (AGDC is this week) but I will aim to put up some prototypes of how the page could be decreased further in size, especially in length. We can then discuss them further before making major changes to the page. --Kal Esh 12:53, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Proposed Changes

Okay... I liked the way Gear had gone as far as categorizing everything, but the amount of info presented to the user was vast and harder to digest than what was previously there (hence the revert by Jeff). Ignoring any conflict regarding said revert my proposed changes are twofold:

  • Goal #1: Streamline the Level Design page. Present high-level information that makes quick and easy sense (categories).
    • A location to ALL the information (more along the likes of Gear's changes)
    • Game Independent Information
      • e.g. Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Compilation theory, etc.
    • Game Dependant Information
      • e.g. Half-Life 2, HL2: Episode One, Counter-Strike: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, The Ship, etc. (HL2: Episode one could even be a sub-link to HL2 due to dependency issues)
      • links to pages providing more in-depth discussion regarding topics specific to those games
      • i.e. Gear's Source Games Category, but changed


  • Goal #2: Support Goal #1 by creating article pages for each high-level link.

This may involve creating mini Level Design pages for each Game, which may be bothersome to setup, but ultimately allow for easier searching of topic or game-specific information

This also includes creating an organizational page (of sorts) for each category of information. For instance, the "Abstract Mapping" article page currently includes a near or exact copy / paste of the list of abstract mapping articles linked through the main Level Design page. The Abstract Mapping article page could instead provide the same list but with short descriptions for each article or set of articles. In addition related articles could be grouped together and the page could be categorized to further help the user.

This same setup could also be applied to article pages for Beginning, Intermediate, and Advanced level design sections. Some of these pages could also have repeating information, which would be okay. Or if too much information is repeating, then traffic could be redirected to locations which contain that information. For example, HL2: Episode One relies on everything from HL2. So, the sub-level design page for HL2: Episode One could contain all the information on the HL2 page plus any additional information specific to Episode One, or it could contain only the information specific to Episode One (HDR for example) and any other information from HL2 could be referred to via a link to the HL2 page.


If, in all my use of this wiki, there has been one thing as a Level Designer / Artist that has rubbed me the wrong way it has been not being able to find the information that I've needed, when I've needed to find it. There is a lot of good information here, but a lot of it is buried. Hopefully, providing a more-robust look at the underlying information available by documenting the types of information available and categorizing it properly will help people find the information they want faster.

What do you think? --Kal Esh 13:47, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Hmmm... even HDR is something that could be split up and cross-referenced as far as game dependent information (HDR Sky values for HL2: Episode One) versus game independent ("How to best effectively use HDR", or, "HDR and YOU", or "What the *&#@*&@& is HDR?" type of articles) --Kal Esh 13:50, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)


Comments go here:


Nice, i didn't think anyone would get tis into it, and yes i agree with you Jeff, right now sliming it perhaps might be a better idea, yet that was not what i was going for. I just wanted to have everything under category's, to allow easy fallment and placement of items and subjects. Mainly the page looks like crap right now, going with what Kal Esh said, hes right, you want to find the info you are looking for and that was my idea. so when you looked under Intermediate, you would see " Oh HDR is advanced or heres intermediate lighting, or well there is intermediate architecture. Hard at first but i suppose me and you can brainstorm a better idea Kal and everyones options can be included.

Also hey Kal send me a message if your comfortable doing this with me, as a base we can work with this oage at the meantime. mrwtoidea

Other than that we might need to do alot of work on it but hey, whatever makes it better as its freakin ugly right now.--Gear 20:21, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Comparing the two versions, at first glance, the current/old one looks more streamlined and welcoming. (This page is one of the first ones that a beginner will look at, so it's supposed to be as far from detail it can be. detailing pages can always be put in the sub pages.) I was bothered by the numerous headers breaking up the page on your version. Can you explain what looks ugly about it now? --Andreasen 04:35, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Oh one more thing, thats alot of work if we are gonna do all that Kal proposed.--Gear 20:22, 4 Sep 2007 (PDT)

I have seen some other wikis and there are alot more organized and streamlined than this one, this wiki needs alot of work to begin with, we still have alot of unfinished pages and detail that might be incorrect, also the damn spammers.--Gear 05:16, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)

What do you mean? If large changes to heavy trafic pages aren't considered carefully, we risk getting an even bigger mess than you seem to say that we're in now. This page looks like its supposed to be the first access to level design, from which all other areas can be reached both directly (through the list) and indirectly (through the links you want to change). That list is the last thing on which to put details, which seems to be your idea. The more links we can put away into sub-pages, the better.
Yes. That's primarily my idea, streamline the main-page and start pushing much of the detail into the sub-pages. --Kal Esh 18:34, 8 Sep 2007 (PDT)
Let's for instance bring up Phong. This is one of many shaders (Bump mapping, Parallax mapping, Cubemaps, ...). While I'm for a mention of the Shader article, from which to link these types, I don't think that such a minor part of the engine deserve to take up space on the list. Newcomers would go like "Oh s--t, I have to learn about phong shading right away in order to set up the lighting. No way. Sc--w this." --Andreasen 07:24, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
Exactly --Kal Esh 18:34, 8 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Yeah thats may a reason why i was very finicky about the phong page being there but i wanted to get peoples option anyways. If we are gonna make anything better we should start now, or at least thinking of some types of ways we can edit the page without destroying it.--Gear 09:24, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)

It's not really about "Should we edit this page or leave it be?". We need something to go on: Could you summarize which links you want to put there, which to move around, and which to put elsewhere? (It's kind of hard to compare this version to the other version just by looking at the finished result.) However, from here on I'll probably stay away from the debate - I have my own part of the wiki to worry about. --Andreasen 11:52, 5 Sep 2007 (PDT)
Honestly, I currently don't have the time to work on this. If Gear wants to keep working on his version I'm fine with that. I'll be putting up my own version linked off my page with my proposed changes so people can take a look at it and give feedback in about three weeks. At that time I'll write more in-depth about what decisions I made and why I think they need to be made and I will appreciate your input Andreasen along with Gear's and anyone else's. My current gripes lay with the current amount of information displayed to the user. I my opinion, beginning users can easily get lost due to too much information (information overload). Whereas it's not quite powerful enough for intermediate / advanced users looking to find all the information they want in a quick and timely fashion. I spend a lot of time making searching randomly because the information I am searching for is not properly linked from any of the main, secondary, or tertiary pages. If anyone disagrees with this I would appreciate their input as I'll take that into account regarding all of this. --Kal Esh 18:32, 8 Sep 2007 (PDT)

Is Gmod useful as a level design tool?

If I've understood correctly Garry's Mod would appear to offer a useful interface for placing physics props and static 'set-dressing' in your new level ... Load your map into Gmod9.x, add models and fiddle with physics, then export as VMF. (Apparently Gmod10.x currently lacks the 'export VMF' function (?), which is disappointing.) If so, isn't it worth mentioning here? or have I got the wrong end of the stick :? Beeswax

I suppose it would work, just take into account that you might get errors if you place props that the game in question does not support (though the chances are minimal since every multiplayer game is updated to the new engine version). --Baliame 07:58, 14 Oct 2007 (PDT)
I don't think it will work. 1st the gmod10 hasnt got the export vmf, 2nd gmod uses lua to create all the things. So if you use any of the tools there, it might start giving errors and such. --Boebi 03:45, 28 Oct 2007 (PDT)

Vehicles in Hl2 DM ?

I've been looking, but can't find wether you can use vehicles in half life 2 deathmatch. I mean, can I use the jeep ? --Boebi 03:45, 28 Oct 2007 (PDT)

Retrieved from "https://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Level_Design&oldid=78460"